We hear all the time how Microsoft and Apple were started in a garage. All successful companies start with an idea, and then seemingly overnight the idea grows into a successful business.
There’s no doubt that becoming your own boss takes a lot of work. And that the road to success is paved with stories of defeat, disappointment, and failure – which is why I loved talking to Sindy Warren about how she helps budding entrepreneurs start businesses – whether they’re just part-time hustles or ideas that allow women to retire their partners.
Whether we’re talking about business or weight loss, there are SO MANY parallels when it comes to the mental game and achieving success in these two different areas.
Sindy is such a great coach & person to learn from if you’re someone who has an idea for starting a business because she has the business acumen to know what’s needed to get it done while also having your legal bases covered too.
Sindy Warren is a life and business coach helping people get real results in their businesses and their lives. She is a Stanford Law School lawyer and yoga teacher who has been a serial side gigger for the past two decades. Sindy splits her time between Shaker Heights, Ohio, and Hilton Head, South Carolina with her husband and daughter.
You are listening to the Done with Dieting Podcast Episode number 48.
Hi, I’m Elizabeth Sherman, former corporate high tech executive turn life and weight loss coach. But it wasn’t that long ago that I was searching for that perfect diet, the one that would finally be the golden ticket to lose the weight that I so desired.
Fast forward past tons of failed diet attempts, exercise fads and painful lessons learned, and although I still have not reached the state of Nirvana, body love, my relationship with food exercise in my body is infinitely better than it was not only when I started this journey, but even as recently as three years ago.
The journey that has allowed me to ditch my scale, stop logging my food and exercise, eat food that I didn’t prepare and easily maintain my weight – something that I never thought was possible for me.
I created the Done with Dieting podcast to give you simple, easy to do and sustainable strategies to help you do the same without all of the drama that I went through.
If you’re a woman who’s looking to create a better relationship with food and her body, get off the diet roller coaster and free up a bunch of headspace spent on calories, how you should look what you should eat and beating yourself up for not doing what you think you should be doing. You are in the right place.
Let’s get started.
Hey everyone, welcome to today’s podcast. So, in the course of working with hundreds of women, something that I love is it’s so many of my clients have amazing ideas for businesses or what we call side hustles. Businesses that can bring in some extra cash and also feed that creative need that so many of us have.
But for many of us, we have these amazing dreams, but that inner critic in our heads pops up with all of these obstacles. Like, I’m not good with business, or it’ll never work, or I don’t even know what I’m doing. That’s why I needed to have my guest on today’s podcast.
Sindy Warren is a life coach who helps folks get their side gig started. She helps folks who have dreams to make those dreams a reality. So, if you have any inkling whatsoever of something that you might want to do, now that the kids are out of the house, this is the perfect episode for you.
She’s got so much amazing advice including how to get out of procrastination, as well as how to get over the discomfort of selling. Something that we have to do when we decide that we want to do something. So, take a listen and I hope you enjoy it. We had so much fun with this episode.
Elizabeth: All right everyone, welcome Sindy Warren to the podcast. Sindy, it is so amazing to have you here. I am so excited.
Sindy: Thank you so much, Elizabeth. I’m so happy to be here with you.
Elizabeth: So, for everyone, this is the second time that we are recording this podcast. It happens sometimes technology. But anyway, Sindy, tell us who you are, who you serve, and what it is that you do.
Sindy: Awesome. So, I am a life and business coach. I work mostly with entrepreneurs and side giggers. Meaning people who either have a side hustle, a side gig they’ve started, or are looking to grow one. And I helped them through the journey. Because I’ve been through it myself many times.
So, that’s what I’m doing now. Also in my past life, this life, but past decade, I was a lawyer, an employment law expert, a yoga teacher, a published author. So, I learned a lot of hats, but right now it’s really all about the side gig journey for me.
Elizabeth: So, tell us more about that. Like, you started out as a lawyer and now you’re helping entrepreneurs. Walk us through that process like, how did you get here? Cause that seems like a very vast difference in the two different businesses.
Sindy: Totally. It’s been a leap. So, I graduated from Stanford Law School in the mid-nineties and I went right to work for big law firms and always did like, “oh, I’ll just go with the traditional legal path” like, straight through college, straight to law school, straight to big law firm, so on and so forth.
And after my daughter was born, she is now 18. I thought this really isn’t working for me. So, I started my own journey into entrepreneurship by starting my own human resources consulting business. Which was a perfect segue from my fields of law, which is employment law.
So, it was actually a pretty easy business model to be like, “well, now, I help employers, a boy getting sued basically. Or make changes to the workplace if they do have problems, so it’s a better workplace. So, it was in the same vein of what I had been doing as a lawyer. And I just started it like as a side business when I had an infant and like it grew. And I really fell in love with the process of the business growth.
So, I did that for many years and then had a few little side gigs along the way, I became a very busy and fully engaged yoga teacher, teacher of teachers, meditation teacher, I wrote a book on yoga philosophy. And then, I found coaching. Thinking, “well, this’ll be a fun little side adventure, side gig.” And I fell so in love with the journey for the person, particularly who is always thought, “well, I’m not a businessperson; I don’t have an MBA; I don’t know how to create a business.”
It’s walking them from that journey from conception to like actually having a money-making enterprise. And I ended up dropping most of the other things I was doing and just embracing this world of business coaching and empowerment, sort of whole hugs.
Elizabeth: Nice. Yeah. So, give us some examples of people who typically hire you, and how you help them, and what they’re looking for? Yeah, like I want to hear stories because I imagine that you have some very cool clients.
Sindy: I have really fun stories. And I work with people in a couple of ways, one is one-on-one coaching and the other is I have a program called side gig school. And for side gig school, I often get people like I described who have said to me, “well, I don’t know anything about business.” But I have an idea. But I doubt I could ever do anything with it. Like, “could I? Could you show me how?”
And oftentimes, it is women on what I like to think of as the bookends of motherhood. So, kids just going off to, daycare, preschool, et cetera, and then people more where, “I am life stage wise,” like we just became empty nesters and now what?
So, ideas are all around us. So, people have ideas. And a lot of my clients who joined side gig school just don’t know how to put it into action. And so, I’ve worked with people who had a dream of making healthy food for neighbors. People who had a dream of doing something with a personal training certificate. They got a long time ago and taught some group fitness classes to actually having their own physical training business.
And lots of other things in between. Also, many people who have the typical nine to five and just want to do something on the side that is either a passion project or a way to dip their toes into entrepreneurship.
So, I’ve worked with want to be musicians, and authors, and a lot of creatives. Who are doing the desk job during the day, and then trying something new after working hours to just see where it goes.
Elizabeth: Hmmm. That sounds just amazing. So, people who you said the people who hire you are people who have these ideas, but they don’t know how to put them into action.
And so, what are some of the barriers that you see people coming to you with that you’re like, “oh, that’s totally easy,” yet, when we’re in the middle of it, were like, I can’t get past this. You know, what I mean? Like, when we’re in it, we’re like, “this is a huge problem,” but you’re like, “oh, that’s easy peasy.”
Sindy: Yeah. I would say there are two main things that come up. And this includes for people that already have businesses but aren’t hitting their goals, or never even thought about having goals, and are looking to grow. One is the idea that, “I don’t know how.” So, many people think, “I don’t know how,” and it is actually quite easy to form a legal entity. Like, you can do that online for a hundred dollars in whatever state or country you’re in to get professional liability insurance.
I think of them as like business foundations that it’s really a simple checklist. But people don’t know where to start, what to call themselves, how to structure an offer to how to really dial into what is it I’m solving for with this thing I want to put out into the world? Like, what’s the problem? What’s the solution I’m offering. In other words, offer a clarification and creation.
Some of those things that really just take someone asking good questions and offering really simple strategic advice, can just get people moving.
So, I would say obstacle number one is “I don’t know what to do,” and or “I don’t know what to do next.” Like, I’ve already got some of the basics but how do I grow? The other that I see come up again and again is really people needing to know how to generate confidence.
Not necessarily even in what they’re offering. If it’s a passion project, you probably believe it works. In fact, many people come to their side gig ideas because they want to offer a solution to a problem. They themselves have solved, whether it’s a fitness goal, or a healthy eating goal, or something like that.
And it’s the competence in themselves and their ability to go out there and put themselves out there. Like, there is so much mental drama that goes along with the idea of putting yourself and your offer into the world. And I think that can be really fun deep work for me to work through with clients. Because it doesn’t just affect their side gigs, and their financial growth, and professional development goals. It affects every area of their lives.
So, it’s a really rich area to dive into. And personally, I find it really fun and fulfilling.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Okay, so let’s go back to the “I don’t know how” or “I don’t know what to do next.” And you mentioned some things in there that I think probably give you a really unique advantage because there are tons of business coaches out there, right?
But the fact that you have a law background, like setting people up so that they have liability and they’re protected. Talk a little bit more about that. Like, how do you help your clients with that?
Sindy: Absolutely. So, it really depends on what the business idea is. So, I will take a client by client approach. But for most of us starting businesses, we want to create a separation between our personal assets and our business assets. And that’s done via a very simple legal structure.
So, for most of us and I’m in the us, we’re going to form limited liability companies, AKA LLCs. And that basically just means, look, if someone, “God forbid,” never happened in any of my businesses sues me, they can’t attack my house, or my retirement savings, et cetera.
So, I understand just how to protect yourself from a legal perspective, and then how to create contracts with clients that would protect you, and how to make sure you have the right insurance in place. And most of the stuff, honestly, Elizabeth is very simple. It’s just things people haven’t necessarily thought of, but you’re right.
Like, my lawyer background, lawyer brain, I can just see traps that could arise before they do so that we can troubleshoot for them upfront.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Yeah. As you were talking, it reminded me, and we didn’t talk about this in our first interview. But I have always had an LLC. And I haven’t really felt like I needed it, but a few years ago, before we moved to Mexico, back in the wild, wild west years of the internet, I was looking for pretty pictures on the internet.
And I found this pretty picture and I put it on a blog post. And the photographer” actually hunted me down and tried to sue me. And had I not had an LLC. Gary and my person would have been responsible for that. And so, for those who are listening, even if you don’t think that you’re going to need liability insurance, those types of things. Things that you wouldn’t even foresee, it could protect you from things like that.
Sindy: Totally. And there are companies out there whose entire job and reason for existence is to find who’s misusing pictures that other people have ownership of. So, I’m not surprised to hear that, but it’s a trap. Like, who would know that?
Sindy: So, there are a lot of traps out there, but yeah, the LLC which is a little bit different than the liability insurance. Those are two protections and many people I’ll just say to them, depending on again, what the business is. Call your homeowner provider, and that might cover whatever it is you’re doing, especially if you’re doing it out of the home.
Elizabeth: Hmm. Okay.
Sindy: Liability and protection.
Elizabeth: Yeah. That’s good to know. Okay. And so, then you also talked about offer clarification and creation. So, I’m sure that there are a lot of people out there who don’t know what offer clarification in creation is. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Sindy: Totally. Say, I wanted to like, I’m selling smoothies for my town or moms at my kid’s school. I could sell one-off smoothies for five bucks a pop. But I would want someone to really take into account, what’s the cost of the ingredients? What’s the cost of your labor? How much do you think you should be paid an hour? Are you doing delivery? And is there a model that makes more sense for your time and energy?
So, maybe you don’t sell one off smoothies, you sell a subscription to three smoothie drop-offs a week or something like that. So, I would help people clarify. Not only, what is it your perspective clients would want and why would they want it? But what actually makes sense for you?
The current group coaching program I have right now in my side gig school program, most of them are starting to work with packages versus one-offs. So, I have a client who is coming from my old neck of the woods, HR consulting. And instead of just an hourly rate, she’s actually selling packages of like, this is what I can come in and do for your workplace for this many thousands of dollars versus a couple hundred hours.
So, it makes more sense from a business perspective, when we think about sustainability and growth. And I help people sort through that.
Elizabeth: Yeah. I remember the very first business that I ever created was years ago. People asking me about a business plan. Is that kind of what this is? Or is it something a little bit different? Cause we hear about business plans, right?
Sindy: Totally. I actually think this is way more simple than a business plan. I think of the offer as what are you selling? What are you charging and why? Let’s just get clear on, why you want to set this price point. What’s the product or service? What’s the price? What’s the rationale? I don’t think people need business plans. If You were to Google business plan, a big spreadsheet would come up.
And I don’t think anyone who’s starting a side gig or growing one, needs that. There are a few exceptions, but I have yet to encounter them, to be honest.
Sindy: I’m a big fan of like, how can you make it as simple as possible?
Elizabeth: So then, the next question that I have is do you work with your clients on the viability of what they’re trying to sell or are they already coming to you with the idea that I know that I can make money on this product? Like, how do we figure that out?
Sindy: Yeah. That’s such a good question. Both actually, because some people come to me, and they already have businesses and they’re just looking to grow them. Other people come with me and they’re like, “this is the dream, this is my passion project. Just help me bring it to life basically, bring it to market.”
And other people really just they’re like, “well, now I have time.” Like, the bookends of motherhood people might be like, “well, now I have time.” And here’s some things I like, or here’s some things I’m good at, or here’s some things I’m often asked for advice for. Is there a “there, there”?
And I will help them actually in the brainstorming process, generate ideas, show them a few options. And I think it’s always up to the client like, “okay, you’ve just told me something you’re really good at, or something people ask you about.” Five business models just popped into my head. Let me share them with you. What do you want?
So, it can really be someone from any stage of the process of I have no idea, I just need an extra source of revenue. And we can dial into what makes sense and what is feasible, to people that are already very dialed into that.
Elizabeth: Okay. Okay. And so, the other section of people that you said that you work with, how you work with people is helping them to generate confidence.
Sindy: Yeah. Correct.
Elizabeth: So, let’s talk about that. What does that look like?
Sindy: I’ve had so many clients and I’m thinking of one in particular right now who is so skilled in her field. This woman has decades of experience. She is working with the senior population. What she offers is so valuable to seniors in their families. And she had this story of, “yeah, but can I do it and will anyone want it?”
Even though she knows there’s a very real need in the market. And she also knows she has the skills to make real impact. But she has struggled with the confidence to; first, put herself out there. Second, go out and make offers to help people. Third, set prices that make sense and will support her own needs. And then, fourth, keeping going. Not give up on herself, not throw in the towel too soon.
And so, Elizabeth, that is the heart of mindset work, which I know you bring to your audience all the time. And it’s a really powerful deep journey that I hold my client’s hands through.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Because when we don’t have confidence, then we can say all the words, right? But if we don’t feel and embody the confidence, then other people know that we don’t feel confident. Right? And they’re not going to buy.
Sindy: I think you just said such an important word, which is embodied. Like, when you are in business, even if you just are like a little mini baby entrepreneur, which all side giggers are at least to start. The confidence and putting yourself out there, and then making offers, and in selling and marketing, and then actually showing up in serving, requires confidence.
And I think you’re exactly right, that not only will a lack of it holds us back from being persuasive. For many of us, it will just keep us with our heads under the covers and we won’t even take step one through three.
It’s easy to Google or to look up or have someone tell me, “okay, what are the things I need to do? How do I make an LLC? How do I create a domain name? What do I need to do to get an Instagram handle? The “How To’s,” as I said a few moments ago are not that complicated but it is the mindset will make it a sustainable enterprise.
So, the confidence has to be driving the actions and something that I think is so important for anyone who wants to begin or continue on this kind of journey is something my mother always used to call, I don’t know if this is actually a word or not like, “stick to it of Ness.” Perseverance, grit, resilience, those are some words that I think make up for it.
Because you’re going to get rejection. You’re going to get notes. You’re going to get, “I put a post out and crickets.” And the inner journey of what do I make it mean and now what do I want to do with it, is what will make the difference between your success and your giving up on yourself.
Elizabeth: And as you were talking, I was thinking about self-doubt. Because I’ve been talking a lot with my clients recently about self-doubt. In fact, just a few weeks ago, I produced a podcast called self-doubt.
But we think that we can just layer these confidence mantras on top of our self-doubt and not work on the self-doubt. But if we have these thoughts in our head, if we’re trying to say, “you can do it; and you’re awesome.” But we have this underlying subconscious thought process of, “I don’t know what I’m doing,” and people are going to know that I don’t know what I’m doing.
Then, it’s like putting, “I don’t know,” just tacking something on top of something that is false, and it doesn’t hold water. People will be able to see through that false confidence, right? Into the self-doubt.
Sindy: Totally. And you won’t fully believe it. So, yeah, for exactly the reason you just described, I’m not a fan of like just positive affirmations.
Sindy: Because they don’t really work. Like you said, it’s just like putting a band-aid over something, over a gaping wounds. And I think it’s deeper work to go in and be like, “well, what is that story?” And why is that story? And maybe that story still persists, but maybe there’s evidence we could look forward to creating another story also, the one where you do believe in yourself.
Even while at the same time, you don’t. I actually think we can hold two competing thoughts about ourselves. Like, two competing self-stories. I’m worthy, I’m not worthy. I can do, what I can’t do it. And then, I actually think there are really good coaching techniques and mindset work that can help just propel the story that drives the results you want to be even just one or two steps ahead of the other one, the old and grained one.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Yeah. So, what are some of the things that you use, or what are some of the techniques that you use to help your clients get out of self-doubt? Do you have anything?
Sindy: Yeah. And I wouldn’t be surprised if there is overlapping some of our techniques, but I definitely use thought work. Which is really exploring what your current thinking is creating. And then, working on genuine thought reframes that you believe that you can look for evidence for to create different results in your life or in your business.
And I think that’s what I just described as really different from positive affirmations. It’s not just, “I’m awesome, I’m awesome, I’m awesome, I’m awesome.” If you don’t believe it, it’s actually going a little deeper.
And also, I think sometimes there are gaps of knowledge or skills that as business people, we actually need to go fill. So, I can help clients identify, what are the gaps that you have in your knowledge? I also do some of my one-on-one clients like executive level coaching. What are the gaps now? Let’s go fill.
So, it’s not always just like the way you talk to yourself about things. Some of it is like, “no, you actually need to go learn more things.” So, you can be a more effective leader, or a more effective entrepreneur, or serve your clients more. So, it’s a combination I think of really looking at strategy and also the thought work and the mindset tools.
Elizabeth: Yeah. And something that I’ve been thinking about recently is how self-doubt really does show up on the outskirts of our comfort zone. And so, as we are growing, as we are pushing forward, and becoming this entrepreneur, of course, it’s going to be uncomfortable. Right? And so, when things are uncomfortable, the self-doubt just floods in.
Sindy: And that’s totally normal. And nothing has gone wrong with that happens. Because it’s like, I have confidence that I can do a yoga pose, cause I’m a yoga teacher. I don’t have confidence that I can hit a baseball because I have no a hand-eye coordination.
And that’s actually a fact, not just a thought. But some of it really is like, I can develop skills and of course, it’s going to feel terrible if it’s something I’ve never done before. I think you are so onto something when you say like growth is outside of the comfort zone, whether it’s personal growth, or professional growth, business growth.
That has to be true. To me, that’s one plus one equals two if you’ve never done it before, and it’s something new, it’s going to be uncomfortable. You’re going to doubt yourself and that’s where your opportunity for growth.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Yeah. And so, as you were talking about confidence, I wrote down fear of failure. And I think that that’s probably one of the things that keeps people from wanting to go forward is that we have this fear of failure. Right? So, how do you help them through that?
Sindy: So, I really help them look at their options. Like, you can totally keep yourself small and just reach out to the couple people you know. And that’ll create one result and is that what you want? And I will say, I really very much believe in individual empowerment to create the results they want. So, I will have people in a side gig program, some of whom are like, “no, I really need to make a lot of money so I can leave the day job.” And other people who were like, it’s really just a little something on the side for some pocket change.” And you get to decide.
So, you get to define for yourself, what is success? What is failure? And I don’t think society, nobody should impose that on you. Even though that’s quite contrary to a lot of the societal messaging. But once you’ve clarified, “no bore me, I’m dialed into my heartfelt desire. This is success, this is failure.” Then, we look at, “okay, what are you willing to risk?” What are you willing to try?
And I actually have a personal example that might be helpful. So, after I was several years into my yoga teaching career, and I was like teaching other teachers and involved in some studio management. So, I have a story to share that sort of can highlight, what I think might be a useful way for some people to look at. Do they want to move forward in the face of the risk of failure? Because of course, failure is a risk. It just is. If success were guaranteed, success wouldn’t really even be a thing.
So, after I had been teaching for a few years, I was really passionate about yoga philosophy, I had done a lot of personal studies. Study with more advanced teachers. And I decided there was a gap in the yoga book market, and I was going to fill it. So, I set about to write a book on the philosophical underpinnings of yoga, a yoga philosophy for dummies, if you will. And I won’t bore you with any of the Sanskrit.
I really had a fun time with the project. I wrote the book quickly. I was very passionate. After I was a couple chapters in, I started telling people, I’m writing this book and then it felt like a real thing. I actually went out and found a publisher after getting many, many rejections. And the book got published. Now, I look back this was five years ago. The book is it’s a B minus, I’m going to be honest with you. It’s a B minus at best. That is my honest opinion.
Now, I have had many people tell me, I love the book, the book is great. When I say many, I’m mostly talking about my mother and my husband. But I look back now with hindsight, and I don’t wish I didn’t write a B minus book. Like, I felt like I had something to say. I said it, I put it in the world, my name is on it. Probably, a lot of people rolled their eyes and thought, “who does she think she is to write a book, and that was not so good, and blah, blah, blah.”
And I just decided, “well, I want to be the person that listens to my inner voice, anyway.” And that is at the heart in my mind of yoga philosophy. So, me putting myself out there and risking rejection, and failure, and all that. And I would say, I had middling success is consistent with what I believe is the message of yoga at its core.
So, I want to be the kind of person that puts herself out there, even in the face of not hitting goals. And that’s a story I share obviously now, I’ve shared it with a lot of people. But that’s a question for people to ask themselves, are you willing to do that? And if the answer is no, that’s okay. But what if the answer’s yes? And then, what can we do to actually have you do better than I did with that project?
Elizabeth: Well, but what I love about your story, and I think that this comes around when we’re talking about fear of failure. And when we’re talking about self-doubt, which self-doubt really is just fear of failure, right?
Elizabeth: When we have a passion, when we have something that is so much bigger that we feel compelled to put out into the world, then there really isn’t a lot of room for self-doubt. There really isn’t a lot of room for fear of failure. Because the thing that we need to do just feels like so much more of our purpose.
And so, even if it is B minus work, which I talk about a lot with my clients is at least it’s something, at least it gets you out there, and at least you produce something. Which is a hell of a lot better than being like, “well, I don’t want to do it because I’m afraid that it’s not going to be perfect.” Right? Perfect is the enemy of good enough.
Sindy: Totally. And perfectionism is something that comes up a lot with my clients as I imagine with yours.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Okay, so talk more about that. Tell me about perfectionism.
Sindy: Perfectionism comes up in the; it’s got to be perfect or I’m not putting it out. And what it drives is, I think of like perfectionisms cousin is often procrastination. If you procrastinate doing the thing that needs to be done to move your business forward, what’s going to happen? Not much. And so, perfection isn’t like you said, it is the enemy of the good – the good enough. And there is so many history is replete of examples of people who failed before they succeeded and stumbled along the path to success.
And I think that’s important for everyone to see also. And even if the stumbles, I believe the stumbles are the journey. But what if the stumbles are actually the end of the journey, you’re still becoming someone who’s willing to stumble. And to me, that’s a beautiful thing.
Elizabeth: Yeah. And I really love the parallel that we’re making here and let me connect the dots for everyone who’s listening because you aren’t privy to my brain.
So, when we start either a new business or a new diet, we’re going to have failures along the way. And I think the both of us are saying, what you’re saying. And I’m interpreting, cause I’m nodding along is that when we have a failure in business, we need to just get up and do the next thing and expect that; “I don’t want to say failure is going to be part of the journey,” but it is going to be part of the journey and it allows you to then pivot and become resilient.
Because the quicker we make a mistake and then right the ship after that, whether we’re talking about , let’s say overeating or eating something that wasn’t in your protocol. And the quicker we can move on the faster than we can actually get to quote-unquote success. Right?
Sindy: Totally. It is so much about righting the ship, like you said. The ship is going to be wrong and maybe not that infrequently. And then, we get the chance to right the ship. And I have seen that in my, “I don’t think there’s a woman alive who hasn’t struggled with like body image diet stuff.” And I know in my own personal journey on that front, even though that’s not what we’re talking about today.
I started to see my own personal growth when after “for lack of a better word, a diet fail, or an overeating, or whatever.” I would forgive myself sooner and just right my mental ship. Then, I started to really grow and heal. And so, I think what you’re saying is obviously so relevant for your audience and what it is you do. But I think it’s exactly the right analogy for the business growth as well.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Because the thoughts that we have on our results, right? So, let’s say that I create 500 widgets and the widgets aren’t to specifications or I spent a bunch of money on a prototype, and it really isn’t what I want. The ability to learn from that and not judge it and say, “okay, this isn’t what I wanted, how can I do better?”
The same thing applies to eating, or exercise, or whatever it is that we’re trying to do better with that there are going to be mistakes made. It’s just going to happen because we’ve never done this thing before. Whether it’s building a business or whether it’s being diet free for the first time in our life and learning how to trust ourselves. So, I love the analogy between weight loss, dieting, self-trust, and doing those things within the business. Yeah.
Sindy: Yeah. Yeah, I think there’s so much crossover in the mindset piece of all of it.
Elizabeth: Now, something that you said that I wrote down was fear of judgment. And I think that so many folks have that in the back of their mind of; I can’t put myself out there because I’m going to get all of these, “maybe silent haters, maybe they’re not going to be actual trolls.” But they’re going to be like, who does she think she is? Or all of this judgment. , what do you say to people when they have those thoughts about their businesses?
Sindy: That is so common. I’ve had them myself.
Sindy: And what I say is, do you want to be the person who lives your life in case, what other people may think or because of what other people may think. When really the truth is they’re probably not thinking about you that much at all. People like to think about themselves more than anyone else. Or do you want to be the person that does it anyway? And it’s like, I think this is a similar concept of like fear of failure, fear of judgment, you’re putting yourself out there.
There is part of the human condition. So, it’s coming along for the ride. Do you want to drive when the fear or do you want to just keep the car parked? There’s there either way. And I think that really applies to judgements about other people. For myself, I will say, I don’t think it’s possible to go in the world, and do new things, and offer new things, and not gather some haters along the way.
And like you said, not trolls but maybe silent haters, or judgers, or just “who does she think she is kind of.” I think society encourages that kind of competition as well. And I think what I want to say to that is haters going to hate, so, what? I’m going to live my life because of what someone might be thinking behind their phone when they’re looking at my Instagram.
Elizabeth: Oh, I love that. What they might be thinking. Yes, exactly. Because we don’t know.
Right. It’s my mental energy on that. There’s only so much mental energy. I would rather use my brain power to like you said, fulfill my life purpose. To go and serve in a way that feels good for me. And even if it’s not service, even if it’s just a business idea, that’s for fun, it’s for making some extra money. I want to go do, what I want to go do because it’s my life not like the person on the other side of the screen.
Oh, so awesome. Okay. So, you mentioned something a while ago and I wrote down. When we were talking about different people and some are already entrepreneurs, some people are just starting out, and thinking about their money goals. I love this idea. So, do you do money mindset coaching with your clients?
Sindy: Totally. It’s so much fun.
Elizabeth: Well, tell me about that. I imagine that there are some people who are afraid to want more money. Is that true?
Sindy: A hundred percent. And that is largely women.
Elizabeth: Oh, interesting.
Sindy: Yeah. I see that way more with my female clients and I work with both women and men. But my group coaching programs tend to be way more heavily or even exclusively women. And there is definitely some mind drama, “I shouldn’t want more money.” Especially for side giggers, a lot of them think, “well, I have enough.” Like, this isn’t necessarily my full-time thing, and it may never be, may never need to be.
And so, they impose limiting beliefs. Including thoughts like, money is bad, or I don’t want to be greedy, or I don’t want to overcharge people, or what will people think if my prices are such and such. So, that is a huge part of the entrepreneurial journey is working through your money mindset. And the way I would define money mindset is really just what you think about money. That’s it! It’s like, what are your thoughts about money? I can make it, I deserve it. It can be an agent for good. It can be an agent for change.
There’s so many ways to think about money that are very empowering, especially for people that historically or traditionally haven’t had access to power. So, to me, the money journey is also a journey of empowerment. And again, I think that’s especially true for women and people of color.
Elizabeth: Interesting. Why do you think that is?
Sindy: Why do I think which part?
Elizabeth: Well, just the women and people of color are less, what is it? Less wanting of money or have more limiting beliefs around money, maybe that’s it?
Sindy: That’s an excellent, excellent question. Some of it, I think comes from societal power dynamics. So, who is in power is generally the same person or group of people who have the money. And there’s almost like this in the air but not quite set out loud. We’re not supposed to have the money, if we’re not in the traditional group of power. So, women, people of color, I think it’s very much an underground power dynamic. And I am a huge fan of the book, “We should all be millionaires,” by Rachel Rogers. Have you read it?
Elizabeth: No, I haven’t. I’ll have to write it down.
Sindy: Put it on your list. Everyone listening. It’s so much about sharpening your money mindset for women, and she primarily speaks to women of color. But really all humans, who want to be agents of change in their own lives and or in society at large. It takes cash. It takes cash to make change. That’s just the way it is in the world, at least right now. And how can we do that in a way that is consistent with our values? Where we’re giving back, and taking care of our families, and believing we’re worthy of whatever it is that we want to purchase with the money.
So much of that I think is really deep work that is necessary to advance as a more equitable society.
Elizabeth: Yeah, as you were talking, I was remembering, I think it’s make some noise with Andrea Owen. It’s another book about female empowerment. And she was the first one that I read that really equated money to power. And so, those people who have the money are those who are in power. And the power is really what’s more empowering than having the money.
And so, it would make sense as you were talking that if I am not in the power group, that I would feel that I don’t belong in having the money. Right? Because then, I wouldn’t have the equitable power either.
Sindy: Right. Exactly. And to be in a group dynamic, that’s challenging, those notions, some of which are so underneath the surface of our conscious awareness, anyway. We’re unearthing them and then working to change them is so fun and empowering to be like, “wait a minute, wait, I could make, what? I could do, what? You think I could charge X instead of like X minus a hundred.
And that I think is really fun work for people to challenge themselves and their own notions and to be role models. Like, one of my driving factors is being a role model for my daughter. And as she seen me grow in my own entrepreneurial journey, like she’s so proud of me. And it’s not that I want her to have warm feelings about me. I want her to have warm feelings about what’s possible for her.
Elizabeth: That is so awesome.
Sindy: That’s really awesome.
Elizabeth: That is so cool. Okay. Let’s talk a little bit about procrastination. As I know that that’s something that you work with your clients on. And so, why do you think most folks procrastinate and how do you help them around that?
Sindy: Excellent question. I think most often, procrastination happens because it feels better than the thing, we think we’re about to do. So, I actually think of procrastination as a form of protection. It’s going to be uncomfortable to do the thing like, call a prospect, send out an email, create a marketing plan, go live on Instagram.
Like, some of the things that are just in the wheelhouse of starting a business. That feels terrible. It feels so uncomfortable. I haven’t done it before. I don’t know if I can do it. So, I’ll procrastinate cause that feels better in the moment. Now, it doesn’t drive the results we want necessarily. But I think having a compassionate attitude towards our procrastination is a really important first step. Because if we understand that’s just us trying to protect ourselves, it totally makes sense. So, it’s a rational response to fear or discomfort.
Then, the way that I often help clients get around the procrastination tendency. First is the awareness. And then, is the understanding of coming back to; what’s your reason you want to do this thing in the first place? What is your motivating force? What’s your why?
And when we see that and we see what procrastination, how rather procrastination is keeping us from that thing, it’s much easier to overcome. And learn how to embrace discomfort and do the thing, anyway. Not saying I’m going to coach you so it doesn’t feel uncomfortable that; can you feel uncomfortable and do it, anyway? And the answer is absolutely, yes.
The more we lean into our discomfort, the less uncomfortable discomfort actually feels.
Elizabeth: It’s kind of interesting because this is coming back full circle then to the self-doubt. Because I remember when I was first a personal trainer, I would avoid calling prospects. And I was like, “Elizabeth, why are you doing this?” And it wasn’t until I was reading a book and she was talking about procrastination and how we procrastinate. What we’re doing is we’re avoiding feeling some sort of negative feeling.
And that was actually the beginning to my foray into personal development and feeling my feelings because before I was flatlined. And what I was feeling was anxiety. What I’m now able to trace that back to is I was procrastinating because of the self-doubt. The self-doubt was giving me the anxiety and giving me the lack of confidence. And so, to go back full circle to what we were talking about at the beginning of our conversation, that procrastination is just part of that whole process.
Sindy: It is. It’s like, ends up being like a vicious cycle. And I think all the tools we’ve been talking about for as long as we’ve been talking today, really pertain to how you break the cycle, the various pieces of it. And I think you’re absolutely right. Procrastination is just one spoke of that wheel.
Sindy: There’s perfectionism. There’s self-doubt. There’s “I don’t know how,” there’s all of it.
Elizabeth: Yeah. All of those things that bubble up when we’re like, “oh, I want to start this business.” And then, the next morning, “Mel Robbins, 5 Second Rule,” all of the reasons, why that’s a terrible idea? And then, we don’t do anything with it because our brain has talked us out of making even that first step.
Sindy: It is our brain trying to keep us safe, but safety is the antithesis of growth.
Elizabeth: Oh! We’re going to have to put a little Sindy Warren like, “safety is the antithesis of growth,” that’s quote out there. That’s perfect!
Sindy: And where that came from.
Elizabeth: Okay. So, everything that we’ve been talking about in terms of side gig, it sounds like it’s so much mind stuff. What else do you teach your clients that we haven’t talked about.
Sindy: I would say, I address a lot of the obstacles along the way. Some of which we’ve talked about perfectionism, procrastination, there are a few others that are very common in the side gig journey. In decision is one thinking you don’t have enough time is another the time management piece of this kind of business growth is hugely important.
And then, way more than I could get into today, really do dial into, who is your market? Who is your ideal client or customer? How do we speak to them? So, there’s the whole marketing piece of growing a side gig that I think is really important. And is something that if you haven’t done it before, you just don’t know how to do, which is where you get in that wheel of self-doubt, and lack of confidence, so on and so forth.
And the other piece is goal setting, that something we cover. So, you know what you’re doing, you know why. You’ve got to started, you’ve taken some steps, maybe have even like sold some things or got some paying clients. And now what? I want you to be not just in the present moment but to think to your future and plan for that as well. Both from a strategy and from a mindset perspective.
Elizabeth: Nice. Okay. Now, Sindy, you actually have a podcast. Yeah?
Sindy: I do. It’s pretty new. It is called “Side Gig School,” which is also the name of my group coaching program. And it is me, walking people through the side gig journey. Kind of nuts and bolts to some of the mindset techniques. I want listeners to really be able to do the work on their own. Like, they can listen, take notes, and just go put it into action. I also do some interviews with people that I’ve either worked with or that are just doing really cool side gig things at various stages along the journey. And so, it’s education, it’s inspiration, it’s really fun. I’m having so much fun with it.
Elizabeth: Oh, that is so fun. I actually haven’t listened to it yet, but I need to.
Sindy: You will.
Elizabeth: I will. Absolutely. All right. So, where can people work with you if they want to start a side gig or if they want to learn more about you.
Sindy: Yeah. So, my business name, “I don’t think I even said this,” I’m Blue Tree Coaching. So, my website is a bluetree-coaching.com. And as I said, I work with people one-on-one, I also do my side gig school coaching program, several times a year. The next round starts January 19th, 2022. So, we’ll be kicking off the year with a roundup side gig school. And people can check out the podcast, follow me on Instagram @bluetree_coaching. And I would love to hear from anyone interested in talking side gigs.
Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This has been a delight. Thank you for being on the podcast today.
Sindy: You know what, Elizabeth? I think the second conversation was even more fun. And that’s good, cause this is the one people will hear.
Elizabeth: Awesome. Thanks.
I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I did. What I love about this topic is that whether we’re talking about starting a new business or wanting to lose weight in order to be successful.
In order to be successful, we need to get out of our comfort zone. We need to do things differently, put ourselves out in the world and ask for what we want. When we desire a future that’s radically different than the reality that we’re currently experiencing, it’s a growth opportunity.
And with every growth opportunity, that means that we’re going to feel terrible because all of the self-doubt creeps in. Self-doubt is totally natural, and we need to expect it to pop up and when we can experience it and do what we desire anyway, it makes success so much more gratifying.
Have an incredible day, everyone. I’ll see you next time. Bye-bye.
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