Total Health in Midlife Episode #226: Lit Up Life with Debbie Heiser

Debbie: When I do want something and I’m walking into it, and I see this particularly with women. That we’re afraid to step in or we ask everybody else’s opinion because we don’t want to be held accountable for our own decisions. So, then if I step into something, because Five people told me it was a good idea and I step into it. Well, then if it’s a failure, it’s not my fault. Five people told me to do it.

Welcome to Total Health and Midlife, the podcast for women embracing the pivotal transformation from the daily grind to the dawn of a new chapter. I’m Elizabeth, your host and fellow traveler on this journey.

As a Life and Health Coach, I am intimately familiar with the changes and challenges we face during this stage. Shifting careers, changing relationships, our new bodies, and redefining goals and needs as we start to look to the future and ask, what do I want?

In this podcast, we’ll explore physical, mental, and emotional wellness, offering insights and strategies to achieve optimal health through these transformative years.

Yes, it’s totally possible.

Join me in this amazing journey of body, mind, and spirit, where we’re not just improving our health, but transforming our entire lives.

Elizabeth: Hey everyone, welcome back to the total health and midlife podcast. I am Elizabeth Sherman, your host. And today, I am talking with someone who brings such an amazing energy and perspective to the table. Her name is Debbie Heiser. Now, she is the chief igniter at the lit-up life, helping men and women make good money doing what they love without sacrificing who they are or what really matters to them.

In this episode, Debbie and I dive into creating a lit-up life. What does that mean? So, we’ll get into her approach on balancing drive and pleasure so that you can be successful, but still do it on your terms.

So, listen with a warm cup of tea on your next walk, and I promise that you’ll come away with practical tips, as well as a good dose of inspiration for lighting up the next phase of your life. Let’s dig in.

All right, everyone, welcome Debbie Heiser to The Total Health in Midlife podcast. Debbie, I am so excited that you are here to talk to me and my listeners. And I think this is going to be a really great conversation because we had a really great conversation on your podcast a few months ago. Let’s start out with who you are, who you help, what you do?

Debbie: Perfect. Well, as you mentioned, my name is Debbie Heiser. I call myself a chief igniter because what I do is I help men and women lead a lit up life. And what that simply means is I’ve honed in on people that want to own a business, entrepreneurs that they feel a little bit like their life is out of control. And control is an illusion, but where ultimately the business is running their life versus them deciding, what does my life look like? And then, how is the business a conduit to making that happen.

So, in the tangible world, it’s about, we are in business to make money. That may not be what’s driving us, but that’s what you know, you don’t go in business to go broke. And so, how do we make money, but align with our standards of integrity and our life’s intentions to make sure that it’s in congruency and we’re not having this rub, right? And we’re not giving up family life, or we’re not giving up learning, or social, or those types of things in order to just make ends meet.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I love that because you’re looking then at business through a holistic lens of let’s make sure that your life supports your business, that your business isn’t running your life. Is that what I heard?

Debbie: Yeah. And actually, I might shift a little bit because I think linguistics are important in the fact that the business is supporting the life that you want.

Elizabeth: Okay.

Debbie: Right? Because it’s important to decide what do you want your life to look at? And we look at multiple different categories. And then, once you know what you want, many of us have been trained not to say what we want. You know, even one of my very favorite movies, the original Charlie or Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory. The girl that says she wants something is thought of as a brat and you know, all of these things. And so, we’re kind of fed this information that we can’t say what we want.

So, it’s really about identifying what we want out of life and making sure that the business can support that. And if it can’t, then how do we move into something that’s more in line with our standards of integrity? So, it doesn’t feel like work too.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, and it’s so interesting that you say that because one thing that I find with my clients is that we don’t know what we want. Right? We’ve been serving others for so long that when someone asks our opinion, we always defer to everyone else because we don’t want to have that argument. We don’t want to have that conflict of ‘well, I want this, and I want that.’ Right? So, we’re just like, screw it. I don’t want to deal with it so just choose. And I’m opting out.

Debbie: Elizabeth, I always refer back to because most people have had experience with this. My best friend and I decided we’re going to open up a restaurant called ‘I don’t care.’ Because we get around our larger family and everybody’s like, where do you want to go to lunch? Well, I don’t care. Where do you want to go? I don’t care. Where do you want to go? I don’t care. And then, the one person, my youngest sister would always speak up and say, I want to do Mexican.

And then, everybody’s like, well, who does she think she is? Like, she’s telling us what she wants. And like, we’re spending 20 minutes figuring out where we want to go eat lunch for crying out loud. And so, then there’s all these negative ramifications, right? And then, you think you’re going to get kicked out of the tribe. These are neuroscience, like it’s neurobiology. And so, we are taught not to want things. We are taught that is bad.

And I don’t love bad and good, but people resonate with that. And so, therefore when I do want something and I’m walking into it, and I see this particularly with women. That we’re afraid to step in or we ask everybody else’s opinion because we don’t want to be held accountable for our own decisions. So, then if I step into something, because five people told me it was a good idea, and I step into it. Well, then if it’s a failure, it’s not my fault. Five people told me to do it.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Debbie: Right? And I’m not saying that as a scare tactic, but once you own it, then it’s like, it’s so clear. You know, Shonda Rhimes wrote a book called “The Year of yes.” And I love that book. Not only is it well written and it’s easy to read, but she talks about if it’s not a heck yes, it’s a heck no. Right? Like knowing your standards of integrity and knowing who you are, which circles around to what you said so many times, we don’t know who we are. We put labels on ourselves like I’m a mom, I’m a wife, I’m an executive, I’m a coach, I’m this, I’m that. But when any of that goes away, who are we?

And that’s why I’ve seen a lot of women and men that when their kids grow up, and they’re not involved in sports anymore, and they’re not doing these things. They don’t know how to label themselves. And so, the same thing holds true in business. If I’m a business owner, I just had somebody sell their business. And it’s like, she said to me yesterday, Oh my gosh, had I known how this would feel, I would have done it a long time ago. Because she was really attached to it, but she wanted to sell it.

And so, as you look at that and you move into some of those things, we place our identity on our doing self, not our being self. And so, so many times people have a hard time uncovering who they’re being. So therefore, even when you’re asked an opinion, you don’t give an opinion because you don’t even know what your opinion is.

Now, I’m not saying that in judgment. I mean, ask me how I know I’ve been working on this. And it’s just things that were, and we’re not products of our environment, but we are message this neuroscience. We’re giving messages all the time and our subconscious cannot deflect messages. And our subconscious creates beliefs. And the beliefs are what create the actions and the habits that we have. And so, if we’re constantly fed, don’t trust yourself. We’re constantly fed, don’t say what I want. Then, we start to believe it.

Elizabeth: Well, right. And we are constantly praised for all of our doing, right?

Debbie: Oh, absolutely, because achievement equals love and a lot of families.

Elizabeth: Exactly. And so, I see it all the time with my clients where they get such a dopamine hit from checking things off of their to do list. That when it comes to a decision between, should I go walk outside or should I do the answer these five emails? Right? They’re like, well, I’m going to forego exercise for doing these things because then I can check those off my list and then I can feel good about myself.

Debbie: Yeah. And it’s distractions. It’s really interesting how much I found I distract myself. I was just recently, I know this is going to air a little bit later. But I was recently kicking off my women’s mastermind in the Dominican Republic and watching these new relationships start to form. And these women didn’t really know each other and like seeing the distractions that they would put into play for themselves. Because as you reach a growth edge, you either go forward and go for the walk or you go back and do your five emails. And what’s comfortable, right?

And so, the distractions that we put up, I’ve even questioned, is this dog that I have a distraction from stepping forward? Now, it has added some complexity to my life, but it outweighs all of the positive that I’m getting from it. But I asked myself those questions because busyness is not productivity. I don’t know about you but in my lifetime, my brain and my busyness has gotten me a lot of things. Promotions, executive level jobs, good paychecks, retirement stuff, you know, like it has served me well.

So again, I’m not looking at it in judgment because then you’re judging yourself. But I also want to evolve into something different. Now, I’m still making the same amount of money I was as an executive, but it’s just different. Right? And because I now have the confidence and I trust myself in decision making and I know that there’s so many messages out there. And so, I’ll ask myself the questions because I’ve got the tools that then I share with clients, like the tools to start questioning those things. And looking through the lens that’s back at me, not through judgment. But just Oh, isn’t that interesting how that shows up again?

Elizabeth: It’s so interesting that you just talked about money. And I don’t want to spend a lot of time on this, but I do want to address it. Because the woman who I got my coaching certification from is all about money, and earning, and creating a kick ass business. And I think that for many women, especially women business owners. They find it difficult to ask for the sale that women aren’t supposed to want to have money.

And I’ve had a number of financial planners and money coaches on, but we haven’t really talked about this topic about the relationship that women have with money and wanting money, since we are talking about wanting. Let’s talk about that. So, I love it that you said, that you just made the equation of my ‘I’m here to make money,’ and that I used to earn money from corporate because somehow that seems okay, right? But earning money for yourself.

Debbie: Yeah. And I worked hours in corporate than I do now. Like I have a lit up life. I mean, are there times around tax season that I’m doing things I don’t love to do? Yes. But you know, like ultimately I lead a lit up life. And I’m making more than I did as an executive. It’s pretty equal when you look at the benefits and all that kind of stuff. But the point being to your point, and it’s not just women. I see this in men too, cause I work with men as private clients.

And I actually just talked about this this morning. And the name of my talk was, does money grow on trees? Because most everyone has heard that somewhere like money doesn’t grow on trees. And I’m here to say it does because I need to come up with something different because of crypto, but it’s paper. Right? And so, we have all these messages that we get about money. Money is the root of all evil.

You know, I shouldn’t want more than I have. I should be grateful for what I have. I’m super grateful for what I have, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t want to have more of an impact in my life. Now, at the end of the day, if all you focus on, you’re talking about this one coach that like, it’s a high focus on money. We’re in business not to go broke. Right?

So, like we want to make money, but what I found is I have my goal out there and I have a stretch goal, not just a goal, but a stretch goal. But ultimately, that’s not where my focus is because I asked the question, what would it take to make this amount of money? And then, I back engineer it and say, okay, what would it take? Well, it takes me connecting with people like. And that’s where our standards of integrity and our life intentions come in to play.

Because if I’m doing things and when I say in the service of, I’m not saying people are broken or that they need fixed. But if I’m helping people that want a hand and they want a Yoda to their Luke Skywalker, right? That helps them figure out the tools. Then, the money comes. But if I focus solely on the money that I’m all about the money, and I’m not about the relationship. I’m not about how can I serve or help this person, and I found that to be true with myself, I found it to be true with clients.

But it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t like, I tell people, talk about money, right? What would it take to have a half a million dollars? What would it take to not only gross a half a million, but to net 250, 000 for yourself? And when you ask the ‘what would it take,’ it takes the emotion and the judgment out of it. And said, Oh, well, this inspired action here. That’s a key thing, Elizabeth, that I also talk about is we take a lot of action and that’s the busy part of it. But is it inspired?

You know, for years, and I know you’re going to resonate with this. For years, I have had it’s a different number of the gravitational pull to this earth that you know, as far as weight. That I’ve had since I was probably 14, right? At first it was, I want to lose 10 pounds or whatever. And then, it was 40 pounds and then it was 50 pounds and blah, blah, blah. But what I found is if I was so focused on that, I got into the cycle of beating myself up because I wasn’t disciplined enough to go do the workout. Like I was in the best shape of my life when I was 40 and could kick anybody’s butt when it came to working out, right? Like kind of pushups, 100 sit ups, like I was in it and I loved it.

But as you know, as I age, that creates stress on my body, which does the opposite of what it potentially does. But the point being is I’ve had that goal on my list for a long time. But what I figured out is my goal was not a goal. It was a task. And that’s not exciting. It just isn’t. If I want to stop something or lose something, that is a task.

And so, I’ve really gotten into recently this idea of goals need to be juicy because they need to be able to create motivation for you to then make the change necessary to be there. So, as an example, I have a juicy goal now where my goal is where I live. I live at the base of a ski mountain and 10 minutes from the hill that goes up. And they give away free lifetime passes when you turn 80. You know, where I’m going.

Elizabeth: I do.

Debbie: Some people would be like, I can’t believe that that motivates you more than being around and being active with your grandsons. Well, it does. You know, cause I couldn’t embody like, what does that look like 20 years from now? I know what it feels like to ski. And I know at the age of 80, I want to not only get the lifetime pass, but I want to take five or six runs or more. Before we sit down and have hot chocolate or I don’t drink, but you know, like a cocktail or whatever.

So, then, the question becomes, what would it take for me to be able to do that? Well, all of a sudden, I’ve lost 23 pounds since October, right? Because I’m not focused on the losing the weight. I’m focused on what’s the inspired actions that I know I need to take, right? Like I have some ankle issues from when I shattered my tibia. Skiing back when I was 40. And so, I’m like, Oh, I need to reach out to my friend Renee who works with women on knee stuff and just was on the shark tank thing. Right? And get my knees and ankles to be sturdy enough. So that when I go ski, well, then that requires some action, requires activity, which then I lose the weight.

So, it’s similar to the money piece of it. When I focus on more of the task, it doesn’t happen. But when I say, what would it take to get there? And what’s the juiciness? That goal impacts financially because I want to be able to make enough money to not only buy my pass every year, which right now is at about a thousand dollars. But that’ll continue to go up, which is cheap compared to like Colorado and stuff. Then, I also want to financially have enough to buy my son a pass because I’m teaching my three and a half year old grandson, which when you pizza down a mountain, it’s very different muscles you’re working out.

But then when he turned six, I want to be able to buy him. You know, I just dropped 500 bucks buying all the equipment for him. You know, like renting the skis, and getting the bibs and the gloves, and all this kind of stuff. And I got another grandson, I want to do that. So, that hits the financial goal that I have. Right? Then, it’s relationship goals, because I want to have something that I can do with my grandsons and my son. There’s it hits the idea of business. Like I want to show people I can lead this lit up life I do what I coach. And so, it hits physical, emotional all of those things that hits all those different categories that people tend to write goals around. When it’s like that’s juicy it’s causing behavior change.

Now, don’t get me wrong a byproduct of that is then i can be active with my grandsons. I’ll be around hopefully when they get married, you know. And because I’m creating longevity for my life. And so, hopefully you’re seeing what I mean by the juicy, like if I can figure out that’s really what I want and I don’t have shame or guilt around, and I don’t. But the reason I bring it up is people resonate with it. I don’t have shame or guilt about saying that spending time and being active with my grandsons is not what’s motivating me to make these lifestyle changes.

Elizabeth: Right. Yeah. So, same concept a little bit different. Like I talk about outcome goals versus behavior goals with my clients. So, what we’re talking about here is skiing at 80 is or getting that pass at 80 is an outcome goal, right? And we don’t have 100 percent control over those outcome goals. I don’t have 100 percent control over losing 50 pounds. Right? There are other things that may get in the way. I don’t have 100 percent control over earning half a million dollars or a million or whatever it is because there’s the markets, there’s other things that are happening in life.

But we do have control over our behaviors. Those inspired action that you’re talking about. And one of the things I was just talking about this with a client of mine. One of the reasons is, I shouldn’t say reasons. But one of the ways that we get over that hump of doing things that we know that we should do that we don’t want to do in the moment, right? Like eating a vegetable or eating a piece of fruit versus having ice cream or cookies is our ‘why.’ Which is what you’re talking about, that juiciness.

So, when we have a ‘why’ of I want to lose five pounds, 10 pounds, 50 pounds, it’s not inspiring. It’s like, if I want to have a cookie, I’m going to say to myself, ‘well, I’ll just make up for that later and not eat,’ whatever.

Debbie: Hopefully, really, really, really enjoy the cookie.

Elizabeth: Hopefully.

Debbie: So many times I’ve done that and then I guilt and shame myself for eating the cookie. And so, I’m like, why the hell did I do it? Right?

Elizabeth: Exactly. Yes. But when I can create a compelling why of why I want to make this behavior change. And for you, I love it that it’s skiing at 80. Like, who doesn’t want to be a badass? Like that is so much more inspiring than just losing 50 pounds. So what? I mean, yeah, but yeah.

Debbie: Yeah. And that ties into, and let me kind of wrap it around because you were saying about the ‘I want.’ You know, like that’s where as you continue to grow in this, as a person grows in this. And you know, I both do very similar work just in a slightly different container. That ultimately, when you start to realize what it is that you truly want, then you don’t really care what other people say, right?

And it becomes so freeing when in fact, like I remember being afraid of what people would think of me if I had X, Y, and Z, or I did this, or I said, here’s what I want. When in fact, saying what I want gave me clarity. I was able to get out of chaos and confusion. And by doing that maybe there were some relationships that changed but for the most part, it was extremely freeing. And I find I have much deeper and more meaningful relationships now because I’m not constantly second guessing myself.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I just picked up the book ‘integrity is the way.’

Debbie: Ooh.

Elizabeth: Have you read it?

Debbie: No, but I’m going to have to look at that one.

Elizabeth: It’s by Martha Beck and she’s got a challenge in there, ‘a no lie challenge.’ And yeah, when I started reading that like my chest got really like nervous. Because how often do we lie to ourselves? Going back to the conversation about ‘I don’t care where we eat,’ right? Like we have opinions, but we suppress them because we don’t feel that it’s safe to say them.

Yeah, how often do we do that? How often do we lie to ourselves about what it is that we want or don’t want? And when you were talking about how people will go ask like five other people so that they don’t feel judgment. Like what if you bought a pair of really amazing pants or a hat and no one in your family liked it. But you thought it was amazing.

Debbie: I have that Elizabeth. I have some clothes that my sister’s always like, you look bougie. I’m like, keep your opinion to yourself. I’m like, I don’t care. Right? Because I feel good in it. And I think my hot pink leather dress looks really cool. You’re not the one that has to wear it. Right? So, yeah.

Elizabeth: So, you keep talking about a lit up life. Let’s talk a little bit more about that. How do you define that?

Debbie: Well, here’s how I’m going to define it. The definition is each person’s individual definition. Because my idea of a lit up life is going to be different than your idea of a lit up life, right? Like your idea of a lit up life is you’re living in Mexico right now. I prefer to live where it’s cold because I like skiing. Right. So, that’s the biggest piece to of helping people understand that comparison is the killer of joy.

So, really understanding and trying to get rid of all that external noise to say, because we’re each born with a spiritual DNA, right? Like we’re each born with this, I believe with this higher purpose in life. And the higher purpose, like I think about when I first sold yellow pages, my boss said to me, you’re helping. I know I’m aging myself, but you’re helping people with their hopes, wishes, and dreams. Because the more clients you can bring to them from an ad that you create, then the more money they’ll be able to bring in to be able to do what they want to do.

Well, I do the same thing today. I’m just not selling yellow pages. And so, when you tap into that, and I’m sorry, I kind of am scrolling a little bit here. But when you tap into that, then that allows you, that spiritual DNA allows you to step into something.

And so, it’s really about tapping into that spiritual DNA and understanding your life’s intentions. And once you understand your life’s intentions, then you can build something and usually what you’ve gotten into doing is something that you enjoy or you wouldn’t be doing it.

Now, there are some people that hate what they’re doing. And so, we build a business that allows them to do something that they want to do, we ramp up. But 80 20 rule, most people like inadvertently, I know to the depth of my core that I’m a teacher. That is my spiritual DNA. Even to the point where I got a teaching degree and didn’t really even know why cause I didn’t want to teach in the public school system. Right?

And then, I ended up in the training and development world and all of these things happen. And so, if we follow that, we usually end up in something that is similar to that. So, the lit up life really is me asking people, what do you want your physical? Cause I start with spiritual then physical, because I feel like the work we do is spiritual in nature, whatever someone’s belief system is. But then physically, it’s important to be physically fit because if we’re sick all the time, we can’t do the work that we’ve been called to do.

And so, ultimately, taking a look at and saying, what are things that frustrate you? What are things that ultimately you are irritated by when it comes to that particular section? Because then if you flip that around, that’s usually what people want. Right? The opposite. So, if I’m frustrated because I can’t get out of bed without hurting in the morning, then really what I’d really like is to be able to get out of bed without pain.

Elizabeth: Got it. When I was in high school, our prom song, I don’t know why. This is like the stupidest song. It’s not. But the song was once in a lifetime by the talking heads, that was our prom song. And so, what’s really interesting about that song though is that today, it resonates with me so much more than it did when I was in high school. For those of you who aren’t familiar with the song, it’s ‘you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack, you may find yourself living in another part of the world, you may find yourself in a beautiful house with a beautiful wife. And you ask yourself, how did I get here?’

And I think that when we graduate from high school, college, maybe. We have these ideas of what living as an adult is going to look like. What we are going to do. And then, society and culture starts forming us. And we start making these very tiny, seemingly, insignificant decisions that slowly take us off track.

At some point, then we wake up and we’re like, ‘Whoa, wait a minute, how did my life get here? How am I so far off of what I wanted when I was a young person? And so, how do I get back to that path?’ And so, what I hear you saying is that you help folks or the lit up life is then re creating or re discovering what that path should have looked like and doing it that way.

Debbie: Yeah. And actually, you know, human development says you’re developed by the age of seven. So, we actually start learning, like I’m watching my three and a half year old grandson, even pick up social cues. And certain things that he’s changing his behavior based on whether or not he’s going to be accepted in the tribe. Right? So, that starts very early.

Part of getting to this lit up life is that I bring awareness to the messages, the neuroscience, like the neural pathways that have been developed based on the beliefs cause beliefs are created by messages that go into your subconscious. So, I help look at those and become aware of what are the belief systems than anything that needs to be healed. And then, I help dissolve or change the narrative. I mean, ultimately at the bottom of the day, that’s what I do.

Elizabeth: Sure.

Debbie: And how that manifests then is we open ourself up to money. We open ourself up to wanting what we want and going after what we want. And so, the lit up life, it’s really about yes, bringing people to that pathway of what their desire is. Then, stepping fully in, right? And owning it. I have a client that she actually went out and got a tattoo that says, ‘own it.’ Because I always say, own it, right?

Like if you make this decision, own it and go forward. And really at the end of the day, if people are talking about you in a negative connotation, it really says more about them than it does about you. Cause a lot of times that’s people that are kind of jealous or envious and the fact that they wish they had the courage to go do what you’re doing.

Elizabeth: Yeah. It’s so interesting. Another book that I had a huge impact on me was called, ‘on our best behavior.’ And in chapter three, I think it was she talks about envy. And specifically, about and I have a podcast on it. I’ll link to it in the show notes. But specifically when there’s another woman who you have negative emotions about and you don’t really know why. There’s something about her that bugs you. That is a message to you that she has something that you want.

Debbie: Yeah. It’s so funny that you bring that up, Elizabeth cause I’ve been having these conversations all week with clients in the fact that people and circumstances are put into our lives to show us where we’re not free. And people in circumstances are put into our life to show us where we are free.

Elizabeth: Oh, interesting. Tell us about that.

Debbie: Yeah. And let me explain that. So, if something is bothering me about another person, that’s a mirror. When I see it in somebody else, or I’m irritated by it, or I’m frustrated by something, or I just don’t like that about that person, it’s usually because I don’t like that about me. And I may not even realize that I have that in there, but if you recognize something in someone, that means you have the capacity for it. You just haven’t maybe tapped into it.

Elizabeth: Right.

Debbie: So, the opposite holds true, too because I work with universal law. So, the law of polarity says there’s two sides. So, if I identify in someone this is bugging me, I have to turn the lens and the beam of observation onto myself without judgment. And say, Oh, where is this showing up in my life that I can change or shift? And then, the opposite holds true. If I see something I admire in someone, or I wish I had it, I want it. It means you already have it inside you.

Elizabeth: Oh, I love that.

Debbie: Right. You have the capacity. I was talking to someone earlier that said, Oh, this woman just she does such a great job and communicating in her emails. She’s so friendly in it. And I’m just to the point. And I’m like, well, you noticing that means you have the capacity to do it. You just have to train yourself to do it. You just have to take in the moment of it happening and stop the pattern and try it on for size. But making sure you’re not going into comparison because you’re never going to be exactly like that person.

And so, you have to conform it and fit it to what works for you. And so, we were talking about why is it so easy to observe other people? And if they shifted five degrees, things would be so much easier or observing a behavior that bugs you were you know. And it’s so hard to see it in yourself. And I said, well, I would say it’s really easy to see it in yourself because you’re seeing it in the other person.

Elizabeth: Oh, I love that. That’s cool. Yeah. One of the things that I know that you talk about is dreaming. And I’m assuming that that has a lot to do with visioning of what you want your future to look like. Do you actually use vision tools? Oh, you did a vision board workshop recently, didn’t you?

Debbie: Yeah. So, I also teach foresight and strategy at Gonzaga University. And it’s a class that helps you take your head, your heart, your intuition, and your body to integrate that so that you can foresee what’s coming. Right? So, when you do that, you tap into that foresight. And so, I use visionary tools in that way and I use meditations to help us see like our leveled up self to really embody that cause I don’t believe in fake it till you make it. That doesn’t seem authentic to me. It’s be it and own it. But you have to feel it. So, that’s why the skiing thing is so important because I know what that feels like. And I’ve attached it to a bodily feeling and an emotion.

Elizabeth: Well, and you’ve probably seen 80 year olds up there that you admire that you’re like, I want to be like that.

Debbie: Totally. Yes. Yes, completely. So, I do use some visioning tools but the dreaming is really more about I work with a lot of the inner family system where you have a little girl adolescent, a critical parent or over nurturing parent, and a mature adult. And the little child in many of us, because little’s tend to have like all this emotion, right? They’re mad one second, they’re crying, then they’re happy, they’re you know, all over the place, and we shut that down. Well, that’s our ability to dream.

And when I say dream, I don’t mean like, let’s be adults and say, we’re going to make this and like, have this vision board say, we’re going to do this by this time. Like literally, if you could wave and I have a magic wand in my office. If you could wave a magic wand, right? And your life could be any way you want it and no filters. Just get it out on paper.

Because we get trapped in this, ‘it’s got to be this or this’ versus an and life. You could have both or I know that I am a skier is a skier is a skier. Don’t try to teach me how to snowboard. I don’t care to learn how to snowboard. That’s an either, or I don’t want to. That’s okay. Right?

But we have to be able to dream and say, you know what I want to dream and like my dream is to make this huge impact on people to help people feel freedom. Really, that’s the lit up life feel freedom. So, if I want people to feel freedom, what would it take to get there? And it’s not always the, Oh, I’m going to offer this program or that program. It might be that I start a nonprofit.

I was on the big brothers, big sisters at Kansas city when I was in Kansas city. And I’ve said now for about eight years that I want to open one here where I live. And so, it might be doing some of that work instead of like doing something that I think I should do. Because when people say I should do something, I’m always like, according to whom, right? And so, I work a lot with the inner family to say, bring your little girl out and dream, have fun.

When was the last time you laughed so hard you about peed your pants? When was the last time you laughed so hard that you were crying? And if you haven’t had a marshmallow fight with people in your family, I highly recommend it. It’s the best 97 cents a bag that you’ll spend in a long time. Because many of us tuck that little girl away.

And really when you think about it, imagination, dreaming, all of those things are important even in business. Because we say we need to innovate and be able to turn on a dime. Well, what is that if that’s not imagination and dreaming.

But if we’re out of practice, it makes it harder to shift or pivot when a thing like COVID happens. It makes it harder to think outside the box because we haven’t been practicing that.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Like I think about when I was a young girl. So, I think that I have ADD. I haven’t been diagnosed, but pretty sure that I have it. And as a young girl in school, I was always called a daydreamer. Like I would just like sit there and just like zone out in class. And that taught me like I got reprimanded for that from my parents, from teachers, and that really, you know, changed my ability to imagine to dream because it was looked as bad.

Debbie: Yeah.

Elizabeth: Yeah, wrong.

Debbie: Yeah, and it doesn’t tend to take you very far. And then, you think about dreamers too. A lot of dreamers are also artistic. And I would say like each of us, even if I’m not somebody that is an artist, I have all these like artistic natures inside of me. So, tap into some of those. You can paint, you don’t have to show anybody what you painted. You know, I was joking that I wish I could.

Elizabeth: Because no one wants to be bad at stuff. Right?

Debbie: I mean, exactly. And I’m like, you know, my son laughs at me because we did this painting class one time for my birthday. And I have our paintings up in my closet. And he’s like, I see my art now, is it refrigerator art, it’s closet art. Right. But it’s just about the expression, right? The practicing of getting this emotion and expression out so that you can think outside the box. We don’t have to do everything the way it’s been done in the past.

I tell this story. I love the story about a woman who wanted to learn how her mom made pot roast. And you might have heard this story. So, she goes to her mom’s house and her mom takes the pot roast out. She cuts the ends off, puts it in the pan, does the stuff. She goes, mom, why do you cut the ends off the pot roast? She’s like, well, I don’t know. Your grandma used to do that. Let’s call her.

So, they call the grandma and the grandma said, I just didn’t have a pan big enough to put the pot roast in. Right. And so, we do these things that we’ve learned versus thinking outside the box. And adding or taking or like just changing it up a little bit. And part of that’s because we’re wired. Our brains are wired to keep us safe. Change equates to not safe in our brain.

And hence, why there’s always the struggle of how do you manage change and how do you do all these things? But if you can get to a point where you practice putting change and you practice these tools of imagining things and dreaming things, then change isn’t as scary. Because you know, you’re not going to die because our brains think, like it saves us, tries to save us from dying all the time. And that’s that critical parent. You know, when I hear people say I’m my own worst critic, I’m like, Ooh, their critical parent is out and alive. That’s the perfectionist, right?

And we stop ourselves from doing things. We stop ourselves from dreaming because we think people are going to think we’re stupid or you know, all these things that, and everybody has a different message with that, but yeah.

Elizabeth: Okay. So, let’s put all this together. Well, we first have our vision, or our dreaming of what we want freedom to look like for us, right? Because it is different based on who you are, what your likes are, what lights you up. Right? And then, from there, it’s having this mission of this is what I want to do, right? So, having clarity around it. And then, what else before we have to create our inspired action. Anything else?

Debbie: Yeah. Not really, because, well, there is, there’s a whole lot to that because there’s the metaphysical world. Which is the creativity, the thoughts, the things that go on in our head and in order to bring it into physical reality and to form. We go through this pathway and that pathway has all sorts of obstacles like imposter syndrome, and double binds, and loyalty packs where we don’t want to make our parental figures wrong, or our spouses wrong, or you know, like all of these messages that we’ve implied in ourselves.

So, when I say, yeah, that’s it. You take the metaphysical, you create it into form, and then people need people like you and I to help them maneuver through the obstacles of the mind. Because our mind plays tricks because it wants to keep us safe, and then it fights with the adolescent and with the young child because it wants to go do these other things. And the mature adult finally comes in and says, hold on, right? Like each one of you is important. Let’s figure this out.

And that’s where a coach sometimes can really help pull that in because most of us live in our adolescence. People are feeling burnout or tired, it’s because you’ve been in your adolescence. And it’s not a bad thing to be, being an adolescent is fun. I’m in my adolescence a lot, right? And it’s fun. But it wears you out after a while. So, it’s a matter of taking that metaphysical, bringing it into form.

But going through that obstacle forest, right? That lane, and I always think of star Wars because it’s such a great analogy. I think about when Luke Skywalker is trying to learn to lift his ship out of the water, right? It’s like a mind, like you have to believe and expect that it’s going to happen. And he doubts himself. And every time he doubts himself, the ship goes back in the water, right?

And it’s just such a really good analogy where when you’re taking something from the metaphysical into the physical form, every time you lift it up, if you start to doubt or get stopped by one of those obstacles, it goes back down into the metaphysical. And honestly, that’s where I do my work is in that pathway between the metaphysical and the physical.

But many times people don’t even have the capability or the capacity because they’ve shut it off to go in and dream or think about what it is they want to bring into form. So, to your point, it’s about visioning what is that metaphysical and that it’s okay and it’s safe to date. Right?

And really working through those messages to then create the form and hold their hand along the way. Give them the tools. I always say I want to help people find their own teacher within. Giving them the tools to find that teacher within and sharing with them that I wouldn’t be working with them if I didn’t believe they could do it. So, take some of my belief.

Elizabeth: So, if someone’s listening right now and they like what you’re saying but they’re not sure. Is it just that they feel stuck? Is that who you would work with? They’re like, what’s happening and what I want isn’t matching? Tell me more about who you work with.

Debbie: Yeah. And here’s what I will tell you. Any person that is attracted to saying, I want some clarity. I’m confused is my client. And specifically, if it’s someone that I mean, I’ve worked with career people before too, and helped them like move up in the company because that’s what they wanted to do. But 95 to 98 percent of who I work with are people that are either starting a business, they’re in business, they’re somewhere in that business cycle. Some have teams, others are solopreneurs.

But helping them unlock that they want more, but they can’t figure out what to do with that or they feel bad about wanting more. And they just aren’t quite sure they’re confused. They’re in chaos and confusion. And they want clarity, and they want to be able to move forward. And honestly, they’re kind of like in AA, it says insanity is hitting that doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. And they’ve been doing the same stuff or they’ve gotten into the hustle and it’s not panning out.

And it’s really then because they need to figure out that clarity of what they want. Because once you figure out what you want, the universe provides. I have never seen where the universe does not open it up. I said, I wanted to have program coaches to help with my mastermind. All of a sudden, I got five people asking me to be coaches for me. I didn’t go out and ask them, right?

It’s like, you have a friend that was wanting a different beach house. All of a sudden, she puts it out there and there’s this great book, Elizabeth, by Pam Grout.

Elizabeth: Okay.

Debbie: Called ‘E 2.’ Yeah. ‘Nine do it yourself energy experiments that prove your thoughts create your reality.’ So, I know that’s really ambiguous, but basically if you want some freedom, you’re tired of doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. You want more, but you feel guilty or shameful about that. I’m the gal you want to work with.

Elizabeth: Amazing. And so, how do you work with your clients? Do you do it through, I forget. You have a membership as a group. Is it one on one? You have masterminds.

Debbie: Yeah. Thank you for asking. So, I work with private clients. I typically, although I’m trialing something on a six month basis, but I work with people primarily for a year. And the reason that I signed your contracts is because when we’re digging around in some of that metaphysical shadow self, people want to run, right? Because we get to that growth edge and then it’s like, ah, I want to go away. And I care too much about people to just let them run, right? Like that is just not an option for me.

And so then, once they get past that, where I say they take the step that looks like they’re getting ready to step across the Grand Canyon, but in fact, it’s just a crack in the sidewalk. When they look back, once they take that step and they get clear, then things just start snapping, right? Like the programs, how much I’m going to charge? What’s the structure of my business? All of those things come into play really easily.

So, I work with private clients, both men and women. Most of my programming is for women. So, I have a year long mastermind where we take two trips. We just came back from the Dominican Republic. We’re going to Europe, to England in September. And that’s more of a group program. But you also get private coaching from me and the program coaches that I mentioned. So, those are the two primary ways.

I have a group on Facebook called Build Her. That we share and I go out and do coaching. I have a podcast, like all of those kinds of things too. And then, I have a women’s retreat locally in October in Sandpoint, where we come together and do a lot of this work about casting your vision and really getting clear on your vision.

And then, I’m just now getting ready to put out, but I think this is coming out after that, we’re doing a virtual one. Because I have multiple people, you know, people like yourself and other people that I’ve met through things that are like, Hey, it takes me a full day to travel to Sandpoint. But I’d love to come to one of your retreats.

So, I’m doing a virtual retreat, the Saturday before Easter and the Saturday after Easter, I think it’s like the 15th and the 26th. And yeah, so I do programming, and I do sales workshops all the time and that’s for men and women cause we just get freaked out about sales all the time.

Elizabeth: Right. Yeah.

Debbie: And if you’re in business, you’re in sales. Yeah. So, that’s the private client and the mastermind are the two kind of bigger containers that I work in.

Elizabeth: Great. Is there anything else that people need to know about you? Or anything we didn’t cover?

Debbie: No. Other than I love my life. I love my kid and my daughter in law and I’m super proud of him. I have two grandsons and life you know. Life gives us stuff, but my friend has an acronym called SJGMW and it stands for ‘shit just goes my way’ if I choose it. And it’s kind of how you look at things and the lens that you put on. You know, being delayed for an hour at an airport because they had to change a tire on the Landing gear. I’d much rather that happen then than us be in the air and realize that. Right?

So, it’s all in how you look at it because the universe is always for you. That’s what I would say is if people don’t get anything else out of this, that the universe is always for you. Sometimes it doesn’t feel that way, but it’s always for us.

Elizabeth: I love that. Thank you for sharing everything today, Debbie. This has been a really great conversation. I’ve really enjoyed it. I hope everyone else has enjoyed it as well. Thank you for being here today.

Debbie: Thank you for having me. I feel honored.

All right, everyone, that is a wrap on today’s conversation with Debbie. I hope you picked up at least one new idea that you can start using in your life right away. So, if you’re eager to learn more about Debbie’s work, check out the show notes for her website and her social links. She’s got tons of great resources to share. And it would mean so much to me if you told a friend or two about today’s episode.

Word of mouth is especially powerful when we’re talking about creating better lives for ourselves and those around us. So, don’t forget, you deserve to feel lit up, motivated, and in charge of your path forward. And if you found this episode helpful, please subscribe so that you never miss a future interview or a solo show.

And if you have a minute, I would love it. If you could drop a quick rating or review, it helps other women in midlife, find the podcast and I truly appreciate your support. So, thank you so much for being here. I love knowing that we’re walking this journey together. Stay tuned for the next episode.

And until then, that’s all I have for you. Have an amazing week, everyone. And I will talk to you next time. Bye-bye.

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