Total Health in Midlife Episode #210: Breaking Free from Debt & Enjoying Life with Germaine Foley

Germaine: I think it’s just that lack of clarity that actually you do not have to choose between enjoying life and building wealth. You can do both at the same time. I believe that’s the number one thing, holding people back because they just can’t imagine living this boring, frugal life forever.

Germaine: There’s this cool meme, I think it’s so funny. It’s this older couple, they look like they’re probably in their nineties and they’re in their car and they’re like, ‘yay, we finally get to enjoy life.’ Like we worked so hard, and how we get to enjoy life? And that again, just like the latte factor never sat well with me, neither. Did that narrative of ‘ grit your teeth’ and ‘white knuckle in’ and you can enjoy life when you’re retired. But that just doesn’t sit well with a lot of folks.

Welcome to Total Health and Midlife, the podcast for women embracing the pivotal transformation from the daily grind to the dawn of a new chapter. I’m Elizabeth, your host and fellow traveler on this journey.

As a Life and Health Coach, I am intimately familiar with the changes and challenges we face during this stage. Shifting careers, changing relationships, our new bodies, and redefining goals and needs as we start to look to the future and ask, what do I want?

In this podcast, we’ll explore physical, mental, and emotional wellness, offering insights and strategies to achieve optimal health through these transformative years.

Yes, it’s totally possible.

Join me in this amazing journey of body, mind, and spirit, where we’re not just improving our health, but transforming our entire lives.

Elizabeth: Hey everyone, welcome back to the Total Health in Midlife podcast. I am Elizabeth Sherman, your host. And today, I have a very special guest for you and we are diving into a topic that might not seem directly related to your health. But trust me, once you hear it, you’ll understand it’s all connected. So, we’re talking about money today, specifically, how to take control of it without giving up the things that you love. Like traveling, dining out, or buying that amazing handbag.

Elizabeth: Now, have you ever felt like you’re doing pretty well financially? Like, the paycheck that you get should be okay. But then, when you really look at the numbers, you’re not building wealth. Maybe there’s some debt hanging around, or you just don’t feel secure about your future.

Elizabeth: Now, if that sounds familiar, which I’m sure it does for so many, you are going to want to stick around and listen to Germaine. So, my guest today is Jermaine Foley, and she is a certified life and money coach who knows exactly what it feels like to be in that situation. She’s been there with over 200, 000 in debt. Yes, you heard that right. And with almost no savings, despite having a great income.

Elizabeth: But here’s the amazing part. She actually turned it around. She figured out how to get out of debt, start building wealth, and still enjoy the good stuff in life. And now, she teaches it to other women, and they learn how to do the same thing. So, here’s what you’re going to learn today.

Elizabeth: The key mindset shifts that help you break free from financial stress. So, without feeling like you’re giving up everything that makes life fun. Number two is why it’s not just about budgeting, but also about aligning your spending with your values so that you’re putting money where it really matters to you. And then third, how to balance building wealth and living well right now. Because nobody wants to wait until they’re 80 to start enjoying life, right?

Elizabeth: So, I can’t wait for you to listen to this. Germaine is such a warm, practical, and incredibly honest person. And she’s telling it like it is about her own journey. So, if you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by your finances or wondered if you could do better with what you already have, this episode is going to be amazing for you.

Elizabeth: So, grab a cup of coffee, grab your earphones, go for a walk, whatever it is, and let’s dig in.

Elizabeth: All right, everyone, welcome my brand new friend Germaine to the Total Health in Midlife podcast. Germaine, I am so excited to talk to you again. I think that this is going to be such a great conversation because so much of our thinking and our teaching is so similar.

Elizabeth: But before we go on with that, I would like you to introduce yourself to everyone who’s listening. Tell us what you do, who you help, and how you do it.

Germaine: Yes, thank you so much for having me. My name is Germaine Foley. I am a Life and Money Coach, and I help women who make good money, but aren’t building wealth. And I help them to be able to do what I call, the “Do Both Method,” build wealth and enjoy life at the same time. And so, I am so happy to be here to talk to you all about it.

Elizabeth: Awesome. So, how did you get into this?

Germaine: Yes. Oh my gosh! I got into this because my money was a hot mess, even though, I made really good money. My husband and I made multiple six figures, but we were still living paycheck to paycheck. We still had a bunch of debt. And I just couldn’t fathom living my life like all of the personal finance gurus tell you, ‘you have to live.’ Like on rice and beans. You have to give up all the things you love. And you have to stop going to restaurants. And stop vacationing, and just cut everything out of your life in order to build wealth. And I just couldn’t fathom that.

Germaine: And so, one day my husband, he just said something to me that made me think, ‘huh, why can’t we do both? Why can’t we build wealth and enjoy life at the same time?’ And that was literally my turning point. And I went on a mission to figure out how to do that. And here we are today. We paid off over 200, 000 worth of debt, built up a multiple six figure net worth that continues to grow. And now, I help women like I was do the same thing for themselves.

Elizabeth: That is amazing. How long did that take you?

Germaine: You know, what? I did not keep track, but I think it was about six or seven years. So, it took a while, I think because we were enjoying our lives at the same time. It wasn’t like this big rush to get somewhere. We still vacationed. I still bought cute clothes. My kids were in extracurricular activities. So, we decided to do both, which meant that we probably didn’t pay off our debt as fast as we could. But we’re here now, and I’m so proud of how we did it. I wasn’t burnt out. I didn’t fizzle out. So, yeah, it took about I would say, 6 to 7 years.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, you know, it’s the same philosophy that I have with my clients is like, there’s this statistic that says that 97% of people who lose weight will regain it within the next five years after they lose it. And I think that part of that is because we restrict ourselves from treats. Like we don’t allow ourselves to have delicious food. I mean, yes, healthy food is delicious, but I’m talking about like burgers and pizza and ice cream and things like that, that are fun.

Elizabeth: And so, we think that we’re not allowed to have that until we reach our goal. Will I reach my goal faster? Maybe. But the process to get there is going to be way more fun if I’m including those things than if I don’t. Right?

Germaine: Yes. And sustainable. That’s the thing because if you go on a strict diet. Yeah, you’ll lose the weight, but how long are you going to be able to keep that up? And that’s the same for me. Like I could have gone on this really, really strict budget. And that’s why I forbid my clients from going on a strict budget because I tell them that it will not work. It’ll end up backfiring. And then, they’ll give up and say, see, I’m just bad with money. And so, I think to your point, it’s just not sustainable and people end up reverting back to where they started or even sometimes even further behind.

Elizabeth: Yeah. So, let’s go back to your value statement. You say, I help women who make good money but are not building wealth. What are the reasons that people aren’t building wealth? Even though like, when you look at your paycheck, you’re like, ‘I should be able to be able to do both. But yet, I’m somehow not able to.’ What are some of the things that you see folks are struggling with?

Germaine: Yeah. So, on the surface, it looks like overspending. It looks like being stuck in a credit card debt cycle. But you and I both know that those are actually actions and circumstances, right? So, it always goes back to what they’re thinking and how they’re feeling. A lot of my clients feel like they’re just bad with money. They also feel like, you know, ‘I just can’t save. I’ll never be able to get out of debt. I’ll never figure this money thing out.’ I hear this all the time. I’m so successful in so many areas of my life, but when it comes to this money thing, I just have no clue. Right?

Germaine: And so, a lot of them are buffering what we call buffering with overspending. So, they spend their money to make themselves feel better. So, when they’re having a bad day or when they’re bored, their money is how they entertain themselves. They do a lot of impulse shopping. Again, all of this is tied to just not being able to feel their feelings and not being able to really manage their minds. And it just comes out as spending, and overspending, and impulse spending, and not really taking care of the money that they have coming in.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Okay, that makes total sense. Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about the latte effect?

Germaine: Oh, I hate that.

Elizabeth: Oh, tell me more.

Germaine: Okay. So, when I first started this.

Elizabeth: Well, let’s define it first.

Germaine: Okay. The latte factor is again, personal finance gurus telling you, ‘if you just stop buying so many lattes, then you’ll be a millionaire.’ So, that’s like summing it up. And I hate it. It makes my skin crawl because my thing is like, why can’t I have a latte? Like I work way too hard for you to tell me that I can’t have a freaking latte. Okay. So, I hope that was clear.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I love it.

Germaine: And there are so many other strategies. And there’s so many other things going on. Here’s the thing I really don’t like about it. It’s geared towards women. That is a message that is only geared towards women. And it’s never geared toward men. Men are told to go out and make as much money and conquer the world. And women are told to stop buying lattes and to coupon. And I’m like, no, that’s not what we’re doing over here. We could have our lattes and have a lot of money at the same time.

Elizabeth: Right. Yeah, it’s so funny that like we pick on women with lattes, but we don’t pick on men with their golf habit or sport betting or yeah, tech. Exactly.

Germaine: They have all the gadgets and all the things that are way more expensive than the latte, by the way.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Okay. So, why do you think that is like, let’s talk a little bit about the relationship difference between men and women. What are some of the things that you see happening?

Germaine: Help me understand your question.

Elizabeth: We have this belief that women are just bad with money. We also teach women to save. Right? Versus men are taught to earn, right?

Germaine: Yes.

Elizabeth: So, that kind of.

Germaine: Gotcha. Okay. So, here’s the thing. I think it’s just the way we were socialized. That’s just the way unfortunately, we’ve been socialized to believe that. And I think that men have always quote unquote, been the bit breadwinners. And they are taught to go out and provide for the family. And I think the way we just are spoken to when we were little kids, it’s always about the men, they go into the higher paid careers. And the girls or the boys, I should say, go into the higher paying careers and the girls go into the lower paying careers.

Germaine: So, I think, again, it’s just down to socialization. And I don’t know why women aren’t taught to earn more. I know I wasn’t taught that I could earn as much money as I wanted until our teacher, Brooke Castillo said, did you know that your income was unlimited? Like I had no idea. So, I think it’s just the way we are groomed.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Germaine: I don’t know.

Elizabeth: Well, I was thinking about like some of the clients that I’ve had over the years have been like stay at home moms. And so, I think that they see saving as I guess, honoring their partner’s contribution to the home. Like this is their contribution to the home is budgeting, and couponing, and whatever. And that they aren’t entitled to their partner’s income. Do you see that?

Germaine: So, most of the women that I work with are breadwinners. They make their own money. Even if they’re married, they still are making good money. Sometimes they make more than their spouses make. But I do think that you’re onto something, I think that’s the case. But if anybody’s listening right now and they think that they’re not entitled to their spouse’s money, that’s just not true. Most states, I think all of them now would say, that is communal property.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, I don’t think that anyone would actually come out and say it. It’s just like, I shouldn’t spend this money because my husband or partner works so hard to earn it. It doesn’t come out as, ‘I’m not entitled to spend it,’ but it comes out a little bit differently than that.

Germaine: I do think like you said, they think that this is their way of contributing. If I can save on groceries, if I cannot buy those lattes, and not spend so much, then I am contributing. And maybe, they are. Maybe, that is true. But like I said, the women that I typically work with, they are usually, handling the household finances. They’re either single or married, but there’s like a 50 50 contribution going on.

Elizabeth: Yeah. So, what are some of the hurdles that your clients have, like, why don’t we start earlier? Because we don’t know that the earlier, we start saving or building wealth, that the better off that’ll compound and do. What are some of the reasons that people might not do that earlier and wait?

Germaine: Yes. So, Fidelity Investments, they did a money mindset study a couple of years ago, and they found that 76% of the people surveyed thought that in order to build wealth, they would need to give up all the things that they love. And it’s kind of back to my original point. That’s what I thought. I thought that in order to get out of this debt, I would have to give up my life. And most people do not want to do that. Most people don’t.

Germaine: So, they put it off and they think that they have to either live in an extreme of frugality. And then, if I’m frugal and just do nothing, then I can build wealth. Or they say, ‘well, I’m just going to ignore my money and I’ll deal with it one day. I’ll deal with it later.’ So, I think it’s just that lack of clarity that actually you do not have to choose between enjoying life and building wealth. You can do both at the same time. I believe that’s the number one thing, holding people back because they just can’t imagine living this boring, frugal life forever.

Germaine: There’s this cool meme, I think it’s so funny. It’s this older couple, they look like they’re probably in their nineties and they’re in their car and they’re like, ‘yay, we finally get to enjoy life.’ Like we worked so hard, and how we get to enjoy life? And that again, just like the latte factor never sat well with me, neither. Did that narrative of ‘ grit your teeth’ and ‘white knuckle in’ and you can enjoy life when you’re retired. But that just doesn’t sit well with a lot of folks.

Elizabeth: Yeah, that really resonates for me, just because it’s true. Like we’re fed this American dream that we have to work, work, work, work, work. We have to deprive ourselves. And then, at some point in time, we can retire. And then, we can have the life that I don’t even know, like what? We’re destined to live, that then we’ve earned enough that we can then enjoy it. Yeah, it just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Germaine: It doesn’t make sense. And I used to think like, why would I want to wait when I’m like young now, where I’m healthy now, I can make memories with my kids, why do I want to wait? Yeah, I want to have fun in the future too, but I think I can do both. And that’s why I’m here today.

Elizabeth: Okay. So, to the person who believes that they have to either scrimp and save or spend it all, you’re saying you can have both. Let’s talk to the person who is like, ‘I’ll deal with it later.’ Like it’s too painful to look at right now. What do you say to her?

Germaine: So, the reason why it’s so painful right now is because of the way you’re talking to yourself about wherever you are. Let’s say, you do have some debt. Maybe you want to be further ahead than you are with your investments. It’s the narrative that’s going on in your brain. It’s the story you’re telling yourself about where you are, that’s making it so painful.

Germaine: And so, I always try to neutralize it and have my clients look at where they’re starting as just a baseline. Because you’re going up from there. But we have to know where we’re starting so that we can make a plan forward. And I always recommend that they do this from a judgment free zone, where they’re not beating themselves up over past mistakes and past behaviors. That they’re just giving themselves a lot of grace because you did the best you could with what you knew at the time.

Germaine: And I think if we could give ourselves that grace and kind of forgive ourselves for what we haven’t done yet. Then, we will start to be able to look and do so without all of that guilt and shame of what you haven’t done yet.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I think that I see the same parallels when we’re talking about weight or when we’re talking about numbers as far as health goes to. That a lot of us don’t want to look at those numbers because of the emotional pain that’s wrapped up with the whatever it is that we’re telling ourselves. And we don’t believe that we can actually be compassionate with ourselves.

Elizabeth: I’m sure that you find also that your clients think that when we’re compassionate with ourselves, then that means complacency. And at the same time, we’re like, ‘no, but this isn’t okay.’ It’s not okay for me to be in debt or it’s not okay for me to be at this number on the scale. And so, if I get to a place of acceptance, then I’m just going to be okay with that. And you’re not saying that, right?

Germaine: No, I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying that you’re going to look at where you are. Almost like a scientist, just get really curious about it. Just like if you were doing an experiment, you wouldn’t judge the results. And then, you can take that information and decide how you want to move forward. And so, whenever you’re looking at where you are, it’s from a place of love for your current self and to go forward. Right?

Germaine: So, we’re not saying you’re going to stay there. It’s the opposite, actually. When you have more compassion for yourself, that’s when you can get into motion. That’s when you can start dreaming and start taking action towards your goals.

Elizabeth: And so, one of the things that you said is that you find that many of your clients are not overspending, but maybe not spending in relation to their priorities. Is that what I heard you say?

Germaine: Yes. A lot of times they spend impulsively to I say is to alter their emotional state. So, if they’re bored, if they’re stressed out, that’s their thing that they do. Like for your clients, it might be cookies.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Germaine: And my client is shopping. So, yes, sometimes they do it.

Elizabeth: Or both.

Germaine: Or both.

Elizabeth: Right? Okay. So, how do you work with people so that they can have both? What are some of the frameworks, or tools, or techniques that you use with them?

Germaine: Yeah. So, the very first thing we work on is just really getting clear on, what is most important to them? What are their values? What do they want to really experience in life? And every time I do this exercise with people, impulse shopping and buying things at Target and Clearance never, ever, ever makes the list.

Germaine: However, we know that those things show up on our bank statement all the time. The Amazon purchases and the random trips to Target. But truly they are not the things that you really value. So, we get clear on the things that you really value, and we start spending our money on those things, and we stop spending our money on things that don’t really matter to us.

Germaine: And I am a big proponent of always having money that you can spend however you want. I call it ‘Planned Spontaneity Money.’ So, like I said, we don’t go on strict budgets. We give ourselves a stash of cash every month that we can spend however we want to spend. If it’s at Target, if it’s on lattes, if it’s on shoes, whatever it is, you get to spend that money however you like.

Germaine: And I do give you some frameworks to use within that so you’re not just blowing through that money. But yeah, there’s a lot of different tools I use with my clients to come up with a plan that really works for them and their lifestyle.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I love that. So, that right there, I think is the equal part of we can’t have treats. I can’t spend my money on fun things until I get to my whatever savings. Like it’s never going to be enough, right? Like I can buy this thing when I save a thousand dollars or whatever. And then, you get to a thousand and you’re like, ‘Oh, yeah, no.’

Germaine: You don’t want to spend it, right? The carrot just moves, and the goalposts just gets bigger and bigger. So, like you said, you get to have treats throughout the process, not just when you hit a milestone. So, you get to spend money every month, however you like.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Everyone else listening knows that I live in Mexico. And we’ve been here for almost eight years now. And it is shocking to me when I go back to the United States, how the United States is really set up for consumerism. Like things that I never thought that I needed before. Like I’ll go into Target and I’m like, ‘Oh my gosh, I need everything in here.’ Because it’s laid out so beautifully and it’s just so enticing.

Elizabeth: How do you help your clients through that? Because that is so difficult. It’s like the beautiful candies, and pastries, and beautiful foods that we see on display.

Germaine: Yes. There are so many different tools. One of them is to just know that you are going to want those things. So, the first thing we do is we plan ahead. We plan our spending ahead of time. And I do usually the month ahead. So, let’s say, it’s November. At the end of November, you sit down, and you plan for December.

Germaine: Now, just because you have that plan doesn’t mean your brain isn’t going to want to buy stuff that’s not on that plan. And so, we have to come up with a game plan for what we’re going to do when we want to go off our plan. And I teach them all kinds of tools around allowing urges and I have something that I call it ‘the sleep on it rule.’ So, whenever you have this impulsive urge to buy something that you just got to have, but you didn’t even know about five minutes ago, we sleep on it.

Elizabeth: I love that. I love that. Yeah, cause if it’s going to be important tomorrow or today, it will be just as important tomorrow.

Germaine: Yes. And it hardly ever is. It hardly ever is. And that one tool. And actually, I call it ‘the sleep on it rule,’ but when I explain it to my clients, I’m like, give yourself 48 hours. Sleep two nights, cause sometimes you really need to cool off depending on the thing. And I’ve saved tens of thousands of dollars with that rule.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I was telling you when we were talking before about the fact that when I moved here in the nine months preceding our move, I had to filter everything that I was looking at on Amazon through the lens of ‘do I need it right now? Or is it something that I can bring with me to Mexico?’ Because if it’s not, not that I can’t have it, but it’s just going to be a waste of money to buy and then have to give away or resell.

Germaine: Yeah, for sure. So, that’s a great thing. I wish we all could have that lens. I wish we all were moving to Mexico. And then, we could run it through that lens.

Elizabeth: Well, unfortunately, I would have to say that I’ve gotten a little bit back into my spending, but it’s not as bad as it was. So, for sure.

Elizabeth: Let’s talk a little bit about you said that many of your clients are single and some of your clients are married, in relationships. Do you find that women shy away from taking control of the household finances? Obviously, if you’re single, you can’t. Well, I mean, you could. And then, how does that work within relationships do you find?

Germaine: You know, what? I do think that one person or the other will usually step up and be the money manager. I know, I am the money manager in my relationship. Most of the people who work with me, they are the money manager in their relationships. And I think it just depends on who’s like most interested in it.

Germaine: Around me, like the people that I know, a lot of women have stepped up and they take the family finances and they’re in control of it. Which I think is great cause I think women make really good decisions, even though, we don’t necessarily believe it sometimes. I think we’re really good at managing money and we’re good at growing it too, if we give ourselves the credit, and if we really just let ourselves believe that.

Elizabeth: Yeah. That was the model that I had growing up. My mom was in charge of the finances. And my husband’s family also is that way as well. So, it’s nice to hear because traditionally, you think of men being the ones in control, but I’ve heard that so many times that women are just better with money.

Germaine: I agree with that. I agree with that.

Elizabeth: Yeah. How do you manage relationships where the woman is in charge of the family finances, but other people in the family just aren’t really on board? Is that a thing that happens?

Germaine: Yes, for sure. And this is where I think that the ‘His, Hers, and Ours’ money really, really comes into play. I know that was our situation. At one point, we had all the money in one pot. And then, I was the money manager. And I was probably a little bit too controlling. And he was a little bit defiant. And that just wasn’t good for our relationship.

Germaine: One of the things that we need as humans is freedom. And money gives you freedom. And when you always have to check in with someone about every little thing you do with finances, I think that can just be troublesome. And it can almost become like this parent child relationship. And that’s just not what we want in our marriages.

Germaine: So, I highly recommend a ‘His, Hers, and Ours account,’ where Ours is where you’re both contributing, making sure the household is taken care of, and making sure your bills are paid. Maybe you have a savings account that you share as well. But then, she has her spending account, and he has his. And that gives you both flexibility and freedom to still have autonomy when it comes to money.

Elizabeth: That is fascinating. Cause yeah, like the model that I grew up in, and I know that so many of us think of is like, you’re going to share your finances, so you’re going to share the bank account. And so, if both people are drawing from that same account, you have more of an opportunity for there to be mistakes, right?

Germaine: Yes, for sure. That was my situation. We were both swiping. I don’t know if you remember, ‘Dora the Explorer.’ I’m sure you’ve heard of Dora.

Elizabeth: Yeah, I’m a little old for that, but yes.

Germaine: Well, my kids used to watch it all the time. And there was this little fox and his name was Swiper. And she would say, Swiper, no swiping. And I used to say that to my husband all the time. I would say, ‘swiper, no swiping,’ cause you know, we were both just swiping the debit card, and it just got to be too much. And now, it’s so much better. We hardly ever fight about money.

Germaine: My motto is we don’t fight about money because that was just too much. We used to have little spats about it before. But this new system, like we both contribute to it. We both are making sure the kids are taken care of. We decide how much each person puts into the household account, into the savings account. And then, we each have our own spending money in a separate account that we get to use however we want.

Germaine: And the nice thing about that too is that we get to surprise each other. When we were sharing the money in one account, it was like we couldn’t even surprise each other with a weekend away or a gift because I would see the charge and he would see the charge. And so, it just really frees up a lot of that back and forth and it gives you a lot more freedom.

Elizabeth: Yeah. So, it’s interesting, I never thought about these three different types of sharing money. As I said, I grew up with my parents sharing out of the same account. I was married before and, in that marriage, we actually had his and hers and the joint. Now, I’m married to my second husband, and we have separate accounts for everything and there’s no ‘Ours.’

Elizabeth: What’s fascinating about that is that the ‘His, Hers, and Ours’ didn’t really work and I can’t remember, I was very young at the time. So, I probably wasn’t making a lot of money. And so, I found that it was a little difficult in terms of never feeling like there was enough in each account. But I can imagine at larger or more mature salaries that that probably wouldn’t be that much of an issue.

Germaine: Probably, so. I can see how if the incomes are lower, how divvying up the money might not be the best. But yeah, as you get, like you said, you have more mature earnings and things like that. It seems to be the way; it works for us. And every couple is different. And then, I have friends who they share it all. Right? And they have no problem. And then, I have people like you and your husband are now who everything is separate.

Germaine: And I don’t think there’s a wrong way to do this. You have to do what works for you and your relationship. And for us, it’s the ‘His, Hers, and Ours.’ We love it.

Elizabeth: Terrific. Okay. So, for someone who is in the camp of, ‘I make good money, but I just can’t build wealth.’ What do you suggest that they do first?

Germaine: Yes. So, honestly, the first thing you have to do is just almost allow yourself to believe that you can get there. So, I would recommend that they listen to my podcast. It’s the ‘Wealthy Woman’s Podcast.’ There’s over 100 episodes, and I will get you to believe that you can fix this. Okay. That is what I hear all the time. And I was just on Instagram, and someone sent a message saying, your podcast is you make things so attainable and easy to do.

Germaine: So, I would say, listen to the podcast. And then, start somewhere. One of the things that will get you going is just to start saving every time you get paid. I don’t care how much it is, make it automatic. Just break down that belief that you can’t do it, that you can’t save. And if you’re in a credit card debt cycle, start paying off one at a time. You just got to get an action and out of the mindset that you can’t do it.

Germaine: Again, my podcast is a great place to start. And then, just start taking some action. Because as you take one step, then you can take another, and you’ll just see the way unfold in front of you. That’s the best advice I can give anyone.

Elizabeth: Yeah. And do you recommend people pay down debt first, or save first, or do a combination of both or what?

Germaine: Every situation is different. But I will say that you want to at least have one month of expenses saved. So, figure out how much it costs to run your life. Let’s say, it’s $4,000. You want at least that in a savings account. And I recommend a high yield savings account, like Ally Bank, if you’re in the US. And then, it’s up to you. Some people are like, I just need to get rid of this credit card. These credit cards, they’re stressing me out. So, let’s get that one month and then let’s focus on the cards.

Germaine: But other people, they just really want the security of knowing that they have $20,000 saved. Even though, they haven’t done it yet, they know that that’s what they want. And so, with that, we will work on that. And we’ll take it a little slower with the debt. But everybody’s different. And I don’t think there’s a cookie cutter way, but my only stipulation is I would love for everyone to have at least one month of expenses. You’ll be so surprised how just having that amount of money will just free up a lot of the money stress that you have in your life.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I can imagine. That makes total sense. Okay. So, what else do women need to know about their wealth and building wealth? When I think about building wealth, I think about investing. And I think that that can be a little intimidating. Where do you suggest folks start with that?

Germaine: Yes. So, to your point, investing is definitely a part of building wealth. And I also think of paying off debt is building wealth and saving money. Making sure you have your nest egg, your liquid nest egg, all of that together is building wealth. And so, with investing, if you are in a career and you have access to a 401k where you get a match. That is your first step because you’re doubling your money right off the bat. Make sure you’re doing that.

Germaine: And then, I am not a financial advisor, so I can’t recommend certain stocks or certain funds. But places like, Fidelity Investment, I mentioned them before. They have lots of different funds, like index funds, that just follow the SP 500. They follow the market. I love those because they’re doing a lot of the hard work for you.

Germaine: The one thing I will tell you is to adopt what I call an investor’s mindset, which means you’re investing for the long term. You’re not jumping off the rollercoaster when it dips down, right? When the stock market goes down, we’re not jumping off. You are along for the ride. No one ever got hurt on a rollercoaster, unless they jumped off, right?

Germaine: So, that’s one thing. And it’s not about timing the market. It’s about spending time in the market. And if you can adopt those things, like you’re doing it for the long run, you’re not going to freak out when the market goes down. It’s all about spending time in the market instead of timing the market.

Elizabeth: Yeah. As you were talking, I was thinking about how I think we’re afraid of putting money into investments because we’re afraid that it’s all going to go away, or it’s going to be a bad decision. And at the same time, as you were talking, I was thinking about, well, but what if you just invested in those things that you personally support and enjoy. There’s that idea of being able to support those products that you personally think are fantastic. What are your thoughts about that?

Germaine: Yes. That is really called values based investing. Where you’re investing in companies that you believe in, you believe in their mission. So, let’s say, you want to invest in environmentally friendly companies, then you can look for those. Don’t quote me on this, but I believe they even have index funds, just kind of with those types of companies.

Germaine: But yeah. And I always like to say, if you look at the history of the stock market on average, it has returned about 10%. And sometimes some years, it’s been a lot more. And some years it’s been a lot less. But over the history, it’s been about a 10% return.

Germaine: And so, I choose to think this is my thought process is that, if you’re not in the market, you’re losing money. Because where else are you going to get 10%? I mean, in your own business, yes. In real estate, yes. But if you just are going to keep your money in a savings account, then you’re losing money because of inflation.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Germaine: So, I have a little bit of a different way of thinking about it. Like, I think we should educate ourselves, make sure you understand what you’re putting your money in. And just know the history and be willing to spend time in the market. And know, this is not like for money that you’re going to need next year, right? This is money that you can afford to let sit for five years or more.

Elizabeth: Well, and yeah, as you were talking, I was thinking about you don’t want to invest more than you’re willing to lose. And maybe that’s part of the reason why so many of us are unwilling to invest. It’s like, ‘Oh, but I only have this many chips,’ right? Using gambling analogy here, I don’t want to go all in because then I’m going to lose it. But the more you build, the more willing you’re going to be to let some of that go. Yeah?

Germaine: Yes. And I think investing in single stocks, like that is up to me like gambling. And you don’t want to put more than a little bit of your money in a single stock. Because that is you saying, I’m going all in on this company, and you really need to be very well versed on that particular company. If you’re going to do that. Now, if you want to do that, just make sure it’s a small amount of your nest egg.

Germaine: That’s what the beauty of like mutual funds and index funds are because you’re investing all around, right? It’s a very diverse pool. It’s a little bit of this company, a little bit of that company. And so, if something happens to company A, that’s fine because you have company B through Z that are still doing well. So, that’s the beauty of investing in funds instead of single stocks.

Elizabeth: Okay. So, I’m glad you brought that up because it was something I wanted to go back to if you could just explain what’s the difference. So, you explained like single stocks, but then we have mutual funds and index funds. Can you talk about those for a little bit?

Germaine: Yes. So, mutual funds are just any funds that any investment company can put together. It’s a collection of funds. That’s a mutual fund. You can have all kinds of companies in them. But index funds are different because they’re designed to just mimic the market. So, like the S&P 500. These funds are not trying to beat the market. They’re just trying to mimic the market.

Germaine: So, remember how I said, on average, you get a 10% return. So, the index funds, they’re lower cost. You can get them on fidelity.com or some of these other companies. And the job is to mimic the market. They’re not trying to beat it. Where with other mutual funds, these are managed funds by financial advisors, and they’re trying to beat the market. And because they’re actively trying to manage these funds, you do pay a little bit more. Because they’re human beings trying to beat the market.

Germaine: But Warren Buffett, he’s a big proponent of index funds because he talks about how it’s really hard for a human being to really beat the market.

Elizabeth: So, then in other words, like as the stock market rises, your index fund rises.

Germaine: That’s the goal.

Elizabeth: Along with it. And then, as it goes down, your index fund goes down too. Okay.

Germaine: Yes because it’s just mimicking the top 500 companies in the S&P.

Elizabeth: Great. Okay. So, that’s really helpful. So, that sounds like it’s an actually really safe to a certain degree.

Germaine: We’re using quotes because you can still lose money.

Elizabeth: Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Germaine: But I do want to explain something right quick. So, there’s a paper loss and a real loss. So, a paper loss is a loss that just happens on paper. So, let’s say, you put $10,000 in, and a year later you check your account, and it’s $8,000 because maybe there was a downturn, right?

Germaine: That’s not a real loss, that’s a paper loss. It’s only a real loss when you sell. Like if you sell at $8,000, then you lost 2000. But if you just ride the wave back up and maybe the following year, it’s 12,000. Now, you got a paper gain. And it’s still a paper gain, not a real gain until you sell.

Elizabeth: Got it. Okay, perfect. Thank you. That was helpful.

Germaine: You’re welcome.

Elizabeth: Okay. So, what else do women need to know about their money?

Germaine: I just want every woman to know that you can build wealth, that you can be good with money. I literally used to think that it was my lot in life to suffer financially. I knew I would always make good money, but I just thought, I just don’t know how to handle it. Right? And I just thought, that was just going to be my life until I’ve started thinking differently and acting differently and just creating different results.

Germaine: So, I want everyone to know that no matter where you are today, you can become wealthy. You can become that wealthy woman; we’re all designed to become.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, and I just want to share, we’ve had some other folks on the podcast before who’ve reiterated that women are 80% more likely to have to deal with finances after like when we’re talking about retirement. So, getting in early and understanding what it is that you’re signing up for is really super important.

Germaine: Yes. I agree. 100%.

Elizabeth: Awesome. So, you mentioned your podcast. Where else can people connect with you, and learn more about you, and work with you? Like how do you work with your folks?

Germaine: Yes. So, I have a class that I would love to invite your folks to. It’s called, “How to Build Wealth Without Going on a Strict Budget,” and they can sign up for that class at www.germainefoley.com/wealthclass, and that’s Germaine with a G. So, I would love to offer that. You can also find me on Instagram, @GermaineFoleyCoaching. And again, my podcast is the ‘Wealthy Woman’s Podcast.’ I will say, the new name of the podcast will be “Becoming the Wealthy You.”

Elizabeth: Ah, I love it. That’s so exciting.

Germaine: Yes. And I did that because I’ll just tell you the quick story why I’m changing the name. It’s because so many women have told me like, ‘Germaine, I didn’t think that podcast was for me because I’m not wealthy.’ Right.? So, I want everyone to know that they’re welcome. It is for women who are inspiring to be wealthy. People who know that they make enough money to be way further ahead than they already are.

Germaine: And so, I thought, why not change the name so that it’s more inclusive. So, ‘Becoming the Wealthy You’ is the new name as of the new year.

Elizabeth: I love that. That’s so exciting. And all of those links will be in the show notes. So, you don’t have to remember a thing. Germaine, thank you for being here today. I really appreciate you and sharing everything with everyone who’s listening.

Germaine: Thank you so much for having me.

Elizabeth: Oh, thank you so much for joining me today on the Total Health in Midlife podcast. I hope you found this conversation with Germaine Foley as amazing as I did. So, let’s take a moment here to recap what it is that we learned.

Elizabeth: We talked about how aligning your spending with your values can help you enjoy life now while still building wealth for the future. Germaine shared the mindset shifts that helped her going from feeling overwhelmed by debt to taking control of her finances without sacrificing the freedom to do what she loves.

Elizabeth: And she showed us that managing money isn’t about deprivation. Kind of like, what I say about eating and our health. It’s about creating a plan that supports the life that you truly want. Now, if you know someone who’s struggling with their finances or even just feeling stuck, please share this episode with them. Sometimes hearing someone else’s journey can just be that spark of inspiration that they need to take that first step.

Elizabeth: And if you’re listening and thinking about your own health and how it might be holding you back from the life that you want, I would love to help as well. So, whether it’s feeling more energetic, getting your stress under control, or creating sustainable habits that support your goals, coaching can make all of the difference.

Elizabeth: You don’t have to do it alone. Reach out to me at elizabethsherman.com/call to learn how coaching can help you reclaim your health and feel confident in your body so that you can show up fully doing the things that you want most in life.

Elizabeth: Thank you for spending your time with me today. Don’t forget to hit subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And I will see you next week on the Total Health and Midlife Podcast. Until then, take care of yourself. And I will see you next time. Bye-bye.

Thank you for tuning in today. Now, if you enjoy the podcast and are ready to take the next step in addressing your health concerns, I would love to invite you to schedule an I Know What To Do, I’m Just Not Doing It strategy call.

In this 60 minute session, we will explore what’s holding you back and create a personalized action plan. You will gain clarity, support, and practical steps to move you forward. Visit elizabethsherman.com/call to book your call now. You can transform your health and I would love to be there to help.