Total Health in Midlife Episode #183: Using Discomfort as a Tool for Growth with Tricia Millice

If you walked into grandma’s house and you took all of her stuff. She’s not being respected. She doesn’t get a say. She doesn’t have a voice now. And of course, she’s going to push back. Of course, she’s going to sneak it back into her house.

The same with eating, right? If someone comes in your house and says, the stuff in your fridge is ridiculous. I’m taking it all out. And this is all you’re allowed to eat. Of course, they’re going to start sneaking burgers at the drive through or wherever. Because it feels like you have no control over your own life anymore.

Welcome to Total Health and Midlife, the podcast for women embracing the pivotal transformation from the daily grind to the dawn of a new chapter. I’m Elizabeth, your host and fellow traveler on this journey.

As a Life and Health Coach, I am intimately familiar with the changes and challenges we face during this stage. Shifting careers, changing relationships, our new bodies, and redefining goals and needs as we start to look to the future and ask, what do I want?

In this podcast, we’ll explore physical, mental, and emotional wellness, offering insights and strategies to achieve optimal health through these transformative years.

Yes, it’s totally possible.

Join me in this amazing journey of body, mind, and spirit, where we’re not just improving our health, but transforming our entire lives.

Hey there, welcome to the Total Health and Midlife Podcast. I am your host, Elizabeth Sherman. And today, I have such an amazing conversation with my guest today, Tricia Millice. She helps female business owners navigate those tough emotions that pop up in entrepreneurship and shows them how to turn discomfort into a tool for growth.Now, if you are not a business owner or a leader, I still want you to listen to today’s episode

because we’re really not talking about entrepreneurship or business. We’re really talking about our emotional health.

And before we dive into our conversation, I want to ask you something. Have you ever felt like you were just juggling too many personas? Trying to be everything to everyone. Or maybe you’ve experienced that nagging feeling of disconnection, even when surrounded by those people that you’re supposed to be friends with.

Well, if you have, you’re not alone. And today’s episode is just for you. So, in our episode today, Tricia and I talk about some really deep and real stuff. First up, we’re talking about emotional masks. I know, how we wear different masks to fit in and why that’s so incredibly draining.

We’re talking about the difference between truly belonging and trying just to fit in, and how self-abandonment plays a role in that. We’re also talking about self-compassion. So, how embracing our messy, imperfect selves can lead to deeper connections and personal growth.

Tricia also shares her insights on how our attachments to things, whether it’s food or clutter are often tied to deeper emotional issues. Trust me, this conversation is so incredibly amazing, and it’s full of practical wisdom.

So, grab your favorite drink, get comfy, and let’s get into it. Here’s my conversation with Tricia on Total Health in Midlife.

Elizabeth: All right, everyone. Welcome Tricia Millice to our show. Tricia, I am so excited that you are here today and that you are going to talk to us about all of the things that we have going on. So, let’s start with who you are, who you help. Yeah, let’s start there.

Tricia: Okay. Well, thank you for having me, I’m really excited to be here as well. I am a coach, a previous professional organizer. I still organize, just not professionally. I love that kind of piece. Right now, I’m helping female business owners kind of navigate those uncomfortable emotions that can arise in entrepreneurship. And I teach how they can move past just simply alleviating that discomfort and empower themselves to embrace and understand their emotions, more deeply so they can use that discomfort as a tool of growth and expansion.

And I also understand the pieces of emotions that show up in various places in our lives that can be feel really uncomfortable and confusing at times. And basically, my goal in life is to help humans understand that being human is messy, but it’s also beautiful. And the messy parts is where we learn and where we grow from.

So, yeah. I basically work with women 45ish to 60, mainly because that’s kind of where I am and through my experience. And I think many of us in that time of our life, we’re exploring and starting to get really curious about who we are and who we want to become. And there’s a lot more reflection inside of ourselves and that healing piece.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Like something that I’ve been exploring a lot lately has been just that need for connection that I think so many women, our age are really looking for. There seems to be this collective, I don’t know if it’s unrest. I don’t exactly know what the emotion is, but there’s something missing. And we are surrounded by our friends. Maybe it’s loneliness, that we are surrounded by our friends. And yet, we don’t feel like we’re accepted, or we don’t feel that connection.

Tricia: Yeah, I agree. There is something missing. From my experiences and from talking to other women, I really have started to believe that it’s a disconnection from ourselves. There’s this compartmentalizing that most women do to kind of like masks almost that we wear in different parts of our lives.

And I think there comes a time in our life where we realize like, we have so many different personas of ourselves that we show up as, it becomes really hard to juggle that. And it becomes really emotionally draining to be those people. And I think most of us start to outgrow that and we don’t want to do that. I mean, you get to a certain age and you’re like, huh, what the h*ck with you, I don’t really care what you think anymore. I want to be me, that person that I really want to be.

I think the last few years, that disconnection has just gotten bigger. And then, also with the introduction of social media, that disconnection, that lack of compassion for self, I think comes from feeling like you have to show up in this perfect way. And that’s just not possible for human beings because we’re not perfect and we’re messy and you know, things get ugly. Life gets ugly. And that’s all part of the journey. But I think it’s become sanitized in the social media world, where you really don’t want to show up in those messy pieces.

But at the same time, or and at the same time, I think that people are craving that messiness from other people. They don’t want to feel alone anymore. And I think it all starts with self-compassion with giving ourselves grace and learning from our mistakes instead of berating ourselves from our mistakes.

Elizabeth: Yeah. I want to come back to a couple of things that you just said because all of it was just brilliant. First is I realized really early on in my coaching career that those women who really had those what you call ‘masks,’ which is part of people pleasing and perfectionating. And for the listener, if you want to know, is this something that I’m doing?

I found that clients who would say, I’m fine in one on one situations. But when you put me in a group of people, I just clam up or shut up. And the reason for that is because when we’re one on one, we know what to give that person. We know what persona we need to put on in order to please that person.

But when all of a sudden we’re in a group of six, seven, eight people and some of those personas are clashing, we don’t exactly know how to present ourselves because we can’t be people pleasing to all of those people.

Tricia: Yeah. That’s true. And especially amongst strangers. I mean because we want predictability. We want that guarantee that no one’s going to judge us. So, it becomes really scary to step outside of that because there is a lot of judgment in the world right now. There’s a lot of division going on. There’s a lot of scary stuff going on. And to step outside of our comfort, I guess, comfort or safe zone.

I like to call it a safe zone because I think most of us really struggle with that kind of stuff when we don’t feel safe in that situation. And if you step out and you say something and someone disagrees with you, especially in like a social situation, there’s nowhere to hide. You kind of are stuck there.

And then, where do you go with that? Do you double down and say, yeah, that’s what I believe, and I understand you. Believe something different and that’s okay too. Or do you change your belief and feel like you’re out of alignment with your values just so that you could fit in. Cause there’s such a difference between fitting in and belonging. When you belong, it feels good, right?

Elizabeth: Yeah. So, talk about the difference between that. I was talking to my mother in law about that just recently. She was like, I don’t get it. So, talk about the difference between fitting in and belonging.

Tricia: Well, fitting in is really what I was just talking about when you’re in a situation and you say something and someone disagrees with you, you have those 2 different ways to go. You can stop, backtrack, and fit in, even though that doesn’t align with what you value, doesn’t align with your beliefs and your heart.

Elizabeth: So, what I hear you saying then is that you self-abandon at that point.

Tricia: Yes, exactly. You self-abandon and that feeling when you leave a situation and you think, oh, why did I say that? Why did I do that? Like I could have said so many different things like I feel so terrible and then you spend the next however long it is shaming yourself feeling bad about who you are and why did I do that? And that keeps you stuck there. Or the second piece is to, you know, go with your alignment, with your values, with your belief system, and also show compassion to the other person who may disagree with you.

That a lot of times causes this, because they’re probably feeling a little uncomfortable in the situation as well. And when you can just say, hey, I hear what you’re saying and that’s not exactly what I believe and I’m okay with that, that you believe something different. And I think that we can still be friends. We can still have a conversation.

And that’s going to change the dynamic and that’s about belonging because you’re not leaving feeling like a shameful and what you said or did or showed up as. You don’t feel judged. You know, you can walk away feeling like, you’re still intact. You haven’t abandoned yourself. You get to be who you are and show up.

Now, of course, that’s not going to be the way it is everywhere because the world isn’t set up that way. There’s a lot of people out there that are suffering and don’t know how to be that way. Don’t know how to be truthful to themselves and stay authentic.

But for you, that’s all that’s mattering, right? Because it’s not about them. It’s about how you feel when you walk away. And do you belong in them? Belonging also is belonging to a group of people who are like minded and just make you feel safe to be able to be that person and say those things and show up the way that you want to show up. That’s true belonging when you can feel that kind of connection and that’s connection as well, right? Belonging is connection. You know, fitting in isn’t necessarily connecting.

Elizabeth: Yeah. As you were talking, it was reminding me of a phrase that one of my first coaches said, which is, ‘I would rather be disliked for who I am than loved for who I am not.’ And yeah, essentially, what we’re talking about here is self-abandoning, molding and preselling ourselves into this person that other people will find acceptable.

Which I think that women really have been socialized to be that good mother, that good sister, that good friend, that good wife, that good daughter, the good mom, the good friend, the good employee, the good boss. Like we have all these roles that we have to fill as women. And if we don’t, then someone is going to attack us. That we are less than as a woman then, we’re not doing enough or whatever it is. And so, we have the opportunity to self-abandon all the time.

Tricia: Oh, always. Yeah. And we’re taught this from very young ages because society gets really uncomfortable when women are themselves, when women are strong, when women are saying their opinion and speaking out. It’s uncomfortable for a lot of people in the world and society and cultures.

So, yeah, we learned to play small really, really early. And it doesn’t feel good. It just doesn’t feel good. We spend our lives playing small, not being truly who we are. There’s this other girl inside of us that she doesn’t get a chance to shine. Maybe she got to shine when you were little, when you were a little girl and she was out there. Or maybe when you’re in your twenties, you got to be that person.

There is a point where she gets hidden away and she gets pushed down or she gets lost. And it’s hard to bring her back because of experiences, lived experiences of judgment. And just of that judgment piece also of the meanness that people can be.

And it doesn’t take much, but it also stems back to your childhood and how you were raised and how your parents were in that relationship too. And we carry that with us throughout our lives and it’s going to show up time and again. And learning about sitting with those uncomfortable feelings.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Tricia: It’s hard.

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Tricia: It’s a practice. You have to learn how to do it because if you were raised in a place where no one talked about emotions, how do you expect yourself to be able to sit with your own emotions and understand them?

They’re going to feel scary and they’re going to feel uncomfortable because you’ve never learned how to do it. This is a skill. It’s a skill. It’s not something you’re born to do. When we’re born, our emotions are just part of us. And we have learned and been taught especially as women, I believe to ignore those emotions, make everyone else feel better.

Hold on to everybody else’s comfort, make sure they’re okay at the expense of our own. You know, don’t disappoint anyone else. But it’s okay to disappoint yourself.

Elizabeth: 100%. Yes. I love that. Keep going.

Tricia: And the whole world kind of keeps giving you these mixed messages, you know. I watched the Barbie movie. I know a lot of people have. And the America Ferrera speech is absolutely fabulous. Those that juxtaposition, I can never say the word. But the opposites, like they want us to be this way, but then when we are, they want us to be this way. And then, you can’t really win in a lot of instances.

And that is confusing. It’s hard. It’s uncomfortable. And then, when you want to, when there’s a point in your life. I know for me, when I turned 50, it was like, okay, I want to be different. I want to have me back. And how do I do that? I don’t even know how to do that. I don’t know how to feel my emotions. I don’t know how to stop blaming other people for how I feel. You know, and that was a big lesson for me is that that’s my responsibility. How I feel and how I show up. Nobody else gets to tell me how to do that.

Elizabeth: Yeah. Going back to the America Ferrera speech. Yeah, like women really have to do it right. Like speaking out and being on the cutting edge, you have to do it right. Even with body positivity and body neutrality, there are certain bodies that are larger bodies that are celebrated, and there are certain bodies that are larger bodies that definitely are not.

So, you can be a larger body if you have an aesthetically pleasing larger body, right? If the fat is in the right places, then it’s okay.

Tricia: Right. Yeah. My whole life has been around that piece because dieting was big in my family and so my relationship with food and health has been very dysfunctional. And so, yeah, when I look at myself, I’ve had to learn to understand that that’s a part of who I am right now. And I mean, it’s not something that you can put on and take off like a winter jacket. It’s a part of who I am right in this moment, and I get to choose what I do next.

It’s a challenge and it’s hard to do that because that’s so ingrained in my mind and in my body memory. And also, with the world around me, right? The messages you get. So, the other day, I can’t remember what I was looking at but there was this whole discussion about how a woman who wants to dress up in heels and a dress. She shouldn’t do that because now she’s just being misogynistic.

So, there’s a certain look of a woman in the misogynistic kind of terms and in the society and culture of Western culture especially, how we should look. And at the same time, if you enjoy dressing that way for yourself, then there is nothing wrong with doing that. And I think that we need to get to this place where you can do what you want. Nobody’s going to like, say to you that’s wrong because when they say that to you, that’s because of their inner dialogue and their inner beliefs.

Elizabeth: Well, and to carry that forward, that’s the whole feminist movement is ‘you do you.’ If you want to be a stay at home mom. Great. Do that. No one’s telling you that you have to. If you want to go to work. Great. Do that. No one’s telling you that you have to. If you want to wear lipstick and high heels. Fantastic. You do you. If you don’t, if you want to wear t shirts and quote unquote boy clothes, which are gender neutral clothes, right? Then, do that. Right?

And that’s the whole feminist movement. It’s not about feminism, it’s not about putting men down. It’s about giving women the freedom to do whatever they want to do. And allowing us to make our own decisions and choices.

Tricia: Yeah. And I think that message has gotten lost over the years, especially because there’s a population, especially of in the political world that want you to be afraid of feminism and they’ve made it evil in some way. That we’re trying to take over the world and it’s about the fighting for our rights to have autonomy over our own choices, our own bodies, and what we choose to do in our lives. And the right to speak out when we feel we need to speak out and have a voice in the world.

And so, I really would love to see feminism de villainized in the world, or a different word that we can use. Because it has been villainized so much that it has more negative connotations now than it did even when I was younger. And it makes me sad. Because for a long time, when I went to university at 40, and I was really awakened to my mindset that was very close to my upbringing and my family.

And I had my eyes opened because the word feminism used to trigger me with negativity because of how I was brought up. And in the world that I was raised in, and went to school in, and the town I lived in, the culture that I was in.

And when I went, I was in women’s studies and a couple of other classes, the word feminism started to change for me because I started to learn what it really was. And that to me is the biggest thing is education and learning. And that’s why I think it’s beautiful when women become older, we want to learn that stuff. We want to be able to take responsibility.

Yes. I had some thoughts that were not the best and I did contribute to part of the issues that are going on in the world. And I’ve learned and I begun to change that mindset, those beliefs. And to change my perspective. And to have more educated conversations about it and to learn more about it and to ask questions.

And that’s what I want to see happen for women in the world. Because nobody else is going to do it for us. No one’s coming to save us. We have to be able to save ourselves. And that starts with learning, learning about yourself and it starts with healing yourself. And letting go of that shame.

Elizabeth: Yeah. You said so many amazing things there. And I think that when we look at the evolution of any social justice movement. That first, I think it’s really important for all of us to recognize that the biases that we have, the judgments that we have, whether we’re talking about other women, whether we’re talking about our bodies, whether we’re talking about anything that we did not enter this world with those biases. Those biases were taught to us.

And so, understanding that whatever it is that we learned, we can. We do have the opportunity if we want to, to unlearn those as well. And so, just what you said, which is starting to question, starting to learn more and just open our eyes to; where did I learn that or where did I get those beliefs from can be really super helpful.

Tricia: Yeah. Absolutely, that I think is key to making change is to really start to get curious about not judgmental curious, right? That’s a big word out of curiosity. Like, I wonder why I believe that. That’s kind of strange to me. Like, I felt this when somebody used that word. I felt really tense. I felt really triggered. Where’s that coming from?

And that understanding because I remember the first day that feminism was put out there and my reaction to it was quite visceral. I was like, quite angry about that word. I’m like, why are we learning about this? Like, what is going on here?

And then, that process of me stopping and listening to what people were saying and opening my mind. And then, trying to figure out, okay, well, where did that trigger come from? Well, the trigger came from because growing up in my life, feminism was all about burning your bra and all about all those things that happened. But the message was never taught to me what it really was.

Elizabeth: So, I have just been awakened to this and I’m going to share it with you and everyone else because I learned something that was just mind blowing. And that was that for many of us, we grew up really disliking feminists. Because on television, male writers were writing the storylines about feminists who really hated women.

And so, for anyone who’s listening, if you’re like, you know, I grew up and the example that I heard about was ‘Saved by the Bell.’ Oh, I forget who the actress, I think her name on the show was Jessie. Is that right? Did you watch that show?

Tricia: You know who you’re talking about.

Elizabeth: Yeah. So, she was a self-proclaimed feminist on the show. And the writers would have her say something, and then the boys would like mock her. And then, there would be a laugh track. And so, we all got that same programming. Like maybe feminism wasn’t something negative in your family, but you pick it up through the media. And I just think that that is so fascinating. That the more we can allow women to go into writer’s rooms and write smart. characters for women, like the more we will be able to advance this.

Tricia: Yeah. And I’m seeing that now, which is really exciting to me. There are so many more series, streaming series, and movies that have strong women lead characters that are written by women and directed by women. And you can feel that change. And it’s not just about feminism, it’s about women finding their voices and learning about themselves and being compassionate towards other women and themselves.

Because there’s the other side of it too is the other side of the coin is we’ve also been trained to not be nice to each other, not support each other as women. Which is a huge piece. You know, I grew up in the 70s and the 80s. The 80s, I was a young adult and graduated school.

And in the 80s was when advertising really changed that whole mainstream advertising and how they portrayed women. Perfume ads were a fine example of that. I had the opportunity to watch the documentary, ‘Killing Us Softly.’ There’s a few of them, but it is about that. It’s about how advertising had taken this culture and turned it into this, attack on women and how women should be and it really mainstream media and advertising really played a huge part.

And for me, breaking that down and having this realization that I have this idea in my head of what a woman should be. And I also have these thoughts and feelings of what I want to be. And they don’t mesh. And so, looking back, I started having this kind of discourse and disconnection really quite early on because I wanted to be one way. But didn’t feel like I was allowed to be that way and felt that I had to morph into this thing that I wasn’t.

And that’s where the masks kind of start to show up, right? You know, okay, here, I need to be this way. Here, I need to be this way. And when I look at it now, I’m like, where were the parts of me that I was actually authentically, ‘me.’ Like really, ‘me.’

And picking those out actually is harder than I thought it would be to look at that. Because there’s always been a piece of me that I’ve hidden away, which I know so many women do just having conversations. We hide that piece of us, that strong, that wants to come out and be silly and do fun things or speak in public and protest and whatever it is you want to do. We hide that piece of us. And it’s really hard to open the door to let her back out.

And yeah. So, back to what we were talking about that emotional turmoil that we kind of have. We have like a little battle going on inside of ourselves all the time. Even if you’re not aware of it, it’s going on. And there’s that disconnect and that feeling lonely. So, I didn’t really talk about that, but that feeling lonely is maybe not being able to connect with her. That her, that’s inside of you that wants to get out.

Elizabeth: Yeah. And I want to wrap like these all together because you’ve said so many amazing things. And it’s actually bringing us back to where I wanted to go, which was women do not have a sisterhood. We feel this loneliness and this lack of belonging because we do not have each other’s backs.

And I was reading a book called. “White Women by Saira Rao and Regina Jackson.” It’s an amazing book. But if you’re a little, sensitive about your role as a white woman, don’t read it. But they talk about; we are nice to each other, but we’re not kind. And there’s a huge difference there. And what I have taken away from that is also that we don’t have each other’s backs.

So, like an example of that is we’ve all been at a dinner party or out with girlfriends where one of our girlfriends either isn’t present or she leaves the party. And then, all of a sudden you hear people talking about her. And so, that’s why we don’t have that safety between ourselves is because we’re like, Oh, am I going to be on the outs? Right?

And so, we don’t have each other’s backs because we don’t have our own backs. And that goes back to the self-abandonment that you were also talking about. It all ties together.

Tricia: Yeah. That self-abandonment takes away your confidence. It takes away your compassion for yourself, your empathy for yourself. And it takes away your ability to accept that you are human, and you have emotions, and you make mistakes. And somewhere along the line, I couldn’t tell you where, that humanness has been taken out of us.

It’s been like, Oh no, you must be perfect. And you know, people always say, well, I just don’t know where my perfectionism came from. Well, it’s that. That self-abandonment brings you to a place where you think, okay, well, I have to do it right. I have to get it perfect because if I don’t, I won’t fit in.

Elizabeth: Right.

Tricia: Right. And in reality, it’s that accepting of our humanness and not being perfect which is the beautiful piece of being human that makes us belong. So, we abandon ourselves, and then we find ourselves in this place which just feels we’re looking for safety, but this place feels really unsafe. But we stay there because it’s all we know, right? And the alternative feels really scary.

Elizabeth: Yeah. So, the reason that I had Tricia on the show is because we were talking about eating, and organizing, and how they are two sides of the same coin. And I think that the self-abandonment goes along with that. Because when we abandon ourselves, what we’re looking for is something to fill ourselves up because we can’t do that ourselves.

And so, we’re looking for food to bring us pleasure, or the stuff to bring us pleasure. And what our original conversation was about was that when we go on a diet or an exercise program, whatever it is, we compartmentalize it. We’re like, Oh, all I have to do is eat this way or exercise this way and I will get skinny.

And when we’re talking about organizing, we think that all we have to do is throw away our clutter. And so, what Tricia and I were talking about was the unexpected emotions that come up around ‘getting rid of stuff.’

Tricia: Yeah. Emotions, food, our emotions are attached to food. They’re attached to stuff. We attach our emotions very easily to outside things because it feels safer, right? They don’t judge us, right? Food doesn’t judge us. Stuff doesn’t judge us. Then, we think, Okay, well, I have to change this. I know this is not healthy, whatever it is. Whether it’s organizing or whatever, clutter or food.

We know this isn’t good for us, so we want to make the change. The problem is, is that we start to look at the whole thing as like, okay, if I just do this, then I’m going to get here, and then I’ll be happy. And that never happens because first of all, either we don’t get there, or we fall off the wagon once. And then, that’s it. We quit.

Then, we are sitting there in the midst of our clutter going, okay, I can get rid of this. No problem. And then, there’s this thing in your hand, it’s might be the ugliest thing in the world, but it came from grandma and or my great grandma who I didn’t know, but my mom said I had to keep it. And I really don’t have a place for it, but now I can’t let go of it because now I have this attachment to it.

There’s a memory attached to it maybe, there’s an obligation attached to it, there’s an emotion attached to all of those things. And then, that stays. Then, the next thing you pick up, oh wait, there’s something else attached to it. And it could be for some people, a pen can be that attachment. And that is I believe anyway with working with people and through my own experiences, that that attachment is almost like when you binge eat because you feel bad. And that takes away the bad feeling for a little bit.

The fact that you bought a pen, or you have this thing when you look at it or use it, it can take you out of that uncomfortable feeling and make you feel better for a little while. And each of those things has that attachment. Lots of people, there’s a complicated attachments to stuff because it can be like a memory.

And if I let go of this thing, I will lose the memory of the person, which is emotional. It could be a lack of, which usually in that case is a lack of dealing with grief. There’s a lot of grief in there and then people aren’t processing that. And so, the memory becomes the thing and there isn’t a separation.

But yeah, there’s always a reason behind it. And so, when I work with professional organizers and the fact that we need to look inside ourselves is because we have to not attach ourselves. And I’m sure it’s for all coaches in general. We need to detach ourselves from the outcome of our clients. Because if we start attaching, then we have the same issues. We can’t let go of the fact that they’re making a different choice than what we would make.

And so, being able to step outside that and see your client is struggling to let go of the pen, or the book, or whatever it is, the ugly tchotchke. Being able to step back and say, okay, I can see that you’re struggling with this. Let’s kind of explore that. Let’s look at where that’s coming from. What does this mean to you?

And helping them be able to kind of look at the thing differently. And understanding as a professional organizer, there’s going to be attachment to things that you wouldn’t be attached to. And that’s okay. Because again, we are human and that’s what we do. Right? We want our default is to try to feel safe and survive. That’s our defaults.

And if you start taking the things away without actually processing why you have the thing in the first place. I’m not talking about garbage and stuff like that. Although, in hoarding situations, that can be an issue. I’m talking about sentimental things or things that you can’t let go because you spent money on. Understanding where that’s coming from is how you start to let go.

Because then, you can let go of that emotional attachment to it and know that you’re going to survive without it. In the moment, it may feel like you’re not going to survive without it. What if I need it? What if I need it later? I’ve thrown out so many things and then I’ve needed it later. Right? So, there’s that fear of peace too. And so, listening to just that piece is really important.

Elizabeth: Yeah. A few months ago, I made the connection between diets and those hoarding shows. That when you go into someone’s house, Grandma’s house. And you’re like, okay, grandma, this is unsafe for you. We need to throw everything away. And then, they go back, and they revisit the house, everything’s back in the same place because you haven’t dealt with the issues around why they have that stuff in the first place.

And the same thing is true for diets. Like no one wants anyone to come into; I don’t want anyone to come into my house and start deciding for me that needs to go, that needs to stay. This is useful, that’s not. We need to get rid of all of your stuff. Like I would have a visceral reaction to that. And the same thing is true with food, that if someone else is deciding, okay, Elizabeth, you can eat this orange, but you can’t eat this cookie. It’s the same concept behind decluttering someone’s house.

Tricia: It is. It is because if you think about a child, right? If you take away something from a child or tell them they can’t have it, what’s the thing they want? The thing you said no to, right? What’s the thing they’re going to hide or they’re going to sneak? It’s because you said they can’t, right? And it’s human nature to go, Oh, wait, wait, wait, you don’t get to tell me what to do. Which is very much true. We should all have the right to choose how we live.

So, I see someone like you, who is about health. And it’s about teaching people how do you live with. Because you know, chips aren’t going away, burgers aren’t going away. How do you live in a world where all of that stuff is without feeling like you’re giving up everything?

Because for most people and me included, as soon as someone says, I have to give up something, then I’m like, oh, hell no, not going to happen. I don’t know. Right? So, and I think most humans do that. We’re just like, Oh, I don’t think so.

Elizabeth: Yeah. You’re not going to tell me what to do.

Tricia: Right. And we dig in. And it’s the same, in a hoarding situation, of course, there’s a lot of comorbid mental health issues. And you need to have a team there. And in all situations like that, if you walked into grandma’s house and you took all of her stuff. She’s not being respected. She doesn’t get a say. She doesn’t have a voice now. And of course, she’s going to push back. Of course, she’s going to sneak it back into her house.

The same with eating, right? If someone comes in your house and says, the stuff in your fridge is ridiculous. I’m taking it all out. And this is all you’re allowed to eat. Of course, they’re going to start sneaking burgers at the drive through or wherever. Because it feels like you have no control over your own life anymore.

Even though as an organizer, I can see someone who has lost control of their home and their stuff because it’s everywhere, they’re overwhelmed, they’re anxious all the time. Even though I can see that, when you’re in the midst of it, you can’t see that. And if I were to go in there and say, oh, this is wrong, how you’re living. They’re going to push back because that feels really terrifying to them. Because where they’re living right now is comfortable to them. It feels safe to them.

And it’s the same with like, food. If you don’t get to the root of why someone binge eats to alleviate uncomfortable emotions. And you don’t understand that relationship there. And when that awareness is what helps you stop it, it’s not going to like completely go away. It’s going to be there, but then you’re going to see it in a different way. You’re going to not feel that shame as much. You’ll be able to say, okay, had a moment and I ate an entire pint of ice cream.

That’s okay. Just move on from here. And explore, why did that happen? Okay, I was feeling this way. Okay, I get it. Maybe I can try this next time when I’m feeling this. And that awareness, again with clutter, the awareness of like, oh all this stuff is coming back in my house. How am I feeling right now? What’s going on in my life? How can I stop doing this part because I don’t want that. And do something a little more healthy for myself.

It all starts with the question, ‘why.’ Why is this happening? Where is this coming from? And that awareness is how you stop doing the things that you don’t want to be doing in your life, which is your choice, right? If you want to have lots of clutter, then that’s your choice too, right?

And my job as a coach isn’t to come in and save you and fix you and make all the big changes in your life. My job is to guide and teach new skills and give you space to process whatever it is you’re working on. And it is also my job to allow you to make the choices you want to make that work for you. And if that means, you’re not ready to make that next step. That’s okay, too. I can still be there as a coach. And as a friends can still be there and family can still be there, but they’re allowed to make that decision to stay where they are. And then, that’s okay, too. Right?

And as soon as we do that, the world will start to change, as people start to say, it’s okay that you’re there. It’s okay. Because the number one thing that people want is to be seen and heard. That’s it. I just want to be seen and heard. Nobody wants you to fix their life. They just want you to see them and hear them.

Elizabeth: Oh my gosh, Tricia. I had no idea that this conversation was going to take this route. But this has all been so beautiful and we are bumping up against our time today. So, is there anything else that you want to share? I mean, I feel like this time has gone by so incredibly quickly. Is there anything else that you wanted to share with the listener today?

Tricia: It’s okay to be where you are right now. Right now, is your moment. And if it feels safe for you to be there, then by all means, allow yourself to just be. Be a human being. And allow that human messiness to just be. Because that’s who we are. And really life is messy, and it can get really ugly. And being human is messy. And that’s beautiful because that’s what makes us all unique. And that’s what makes you unique. And nobody does life like you do life. And that’s pretty amazing and beautiful too.

Elizabeth: I love that. Thank you for being here. Oh, where can people find you and do you have anything coming up?

Tricia: Right now, I’m kind of in transition of doing stuff, but I am working on a couple of different projects. I do offer one on one coaching. I do have a website, but that’s also in progress. So, if somebody wants to reach out to me on Facebook Messenger or Instagram Messenger, then we can set up a chat, a connection call and get to know each other a little bit cause I love these kinds of conversations. And I really just want to be a support to all women out there to be able to just step into that girl that they want to come back. And know, that she lives inside of you, and it’s okay to need some help with that.

So, yeah. Instagram, Facebook. When my website’s done, I’ll let you know. Yeah, I’m just working on transitioning into this more emotional coaching piece.

Elizabeth: Beautiful. I’ll have all of those links in the show notes. So, if you want to connect with Tricia, just go to the show notes and we will have all that ready for you. So, Tricia, thank you for being here today.

Tricia: Thank you so much. This was fun. This was a great conversation. I love stuff like this. So, thank you so much for inviting me.

Elizabeth: Oh, thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the Total Health and Midlife Podcast. I hope you found my conversation with Tricia as insightful and empowering as I did. We covered a lot of ground today from understanding and embracing our emotional masks to the difference between fitting in and truly belonging and the importance of self-compassion in our daily lives.

Remember, it’s okay to be where you are right now, embracing all of the messy parts of life. It’s not only okay, it’s a vital part of our growth and connection with ourselves and with others. And if you know someone who struggles with reclaiming her health and wants to ensure that it doesn’t get in the way of her future plans, please share this episode with her. Sharing these conversations can make a huge difference.

And if you’re ready to take control of your health and make sure it supports the life that you want to lead, I’m here to help. Reach out to me to learn more about how coaching can guide you towards a healthier, more vibrant life. You can find all the details and links in the show notes.

Until next time, take care of yourself and remember that you deserve to live a healthy and fulfilling life. Thank you for listening and I’ll see you in the next episode. Bye-bye.

Thank you for tuning in today. Now, if you enjoy the podcast and are ready to take the next step in addressing your health concerns, I would love to invite you to schedule an I Know What To Do, I’m Just Not Doing It strategy call.

In this 60 minute session, we will explore what’s holding you back and create a personalized action plan. You will gain clarity, support, and practical steps to move you forward. Visit elizabethsherman.com/call to book your call now. You can transform your health and I would love to be there to help.